is the 20cm x 30cm lie horizontal?

[glassila]

I had my disc land on a fairly steep slope. If I measured 30 cm horizontally back my lie would be on flat ground. If I measured the 30cm along the ground my lie would still be on the slope.
In the attached image the black line is the ground and the red line indicates the disc.
Should my lie be on the slope or on flat area?

 

[biscoe]

IMO it follows the ground so your lie would be on the slope.

 

[HyooMac]

Is the slope too steep to safely have a stance?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Is the slope too steep to safely have a stance?

It's your decision whether a lie is playable or not. You can always take a stroke penalty and move back on the line of play to flatter ground (803.02D) or rethrow from previous lie (809.01). Ideally, the TD/designer has marked any steep slopes for casual relief so you can move back on the line of play to its edge without penalty.

 

[glassila]

Is the slope too steep to safely have a stance?

Since there was 4-5 inches of snow it was too steep to stand on without slipping down to the bottom, but I wouldn't say it was unsafe.

 

[Steve West]

Generally along the ground, not horizontally.

"... 30cm deep, centered on the line of play ..." The line of play is the imaginary line on the playing surface..." "The playing surface is a surface, generally the ground, ..."

If you use that slope by placing a foot or even a hand on it, it's a playing surface. So, the lie would be a tilted rectangle.

But...

If your group agrees the sloped part is not a playing surface, then: "If the playing surface ends, the line of play continues on the nearest playing surface following that line."

So, the longer answer is along the ground, but in very rare cases not the ground immediately behind the disc. If you agreed your lie was a rectangle on the flat part, and then you touched the slope at the time of release, that would be a stance violation.

Other notes:

There is a myth that any rule can be violated without consequence for safety reasons. That is not true.

30cm is more like 11 inches than 8.

 

[krupicka]

I have in the past given instructions to players for some courses that if they are not able to stay put on a surface without sliding, it is not a playing surface.

 

[glassila]

I have in the past given instructions to players for some courses that if they are not able to stay put on a surface without sliding, it is not a playing surface.

I would definitely have slid if I had stood with both feet on the slope.

I would not have slid if I had put 1 foot on the flat ground and the other foot on the slope...would I have been forced to take a stance with 1 leg up on the slope?

I want to say that since I could not put both feet on the slope without slidding down I should get to mark my lie at the bottom of the slope. Is that right?

I don't think it matters, but the red arrow indicates the direction to the basket.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

@glassila So how did you end up playing it?

This is an interesting conversation, came to an end too quick haha. I would have got caught, I check my stance holding a disc behind my thrown disc. for roughly the 30cm.

The first rule if disc golf is Have Fun, the second is Don't Break Your Leg. I think it would be hard for a TD to not side with you on that one...

Devils advocate here, what if the playing direction was reversed? And the slope continued down a cliff?

What if you were playing with a brace or a crutch like a physical impairment/injury? Or in Rollerskates?

 

[glassila]

@glassila So how did you end up playing it?

This is an interesting conversation, came to an end too quick haha. I would have got caught, I check my stance holding a disc behind my thrown disc. for roughly the 30cm.

The first rule if disc golf is Have Fun, the second is Don't Break Your Leg. I think it would be hard for a TD to not side with you on that one...

Devils advocate here, what if the playing direction was reversed? And the slope continued down a cliff?

I played it like the 20x30 is measured horizontally - I left my thrown disc where it was and placed my front foot on flat ground. The guy I was playing with thought that was the right way to play it.

If the slope was in the other direction I would not have been able to take a stance behind the disc as I would have slid forward and through my lie.

 

[Steve West]

What if you were playing with a brace or a crutch like a physical impairment/injury? Or in Rollerskates?

QA-STA-1: A supporting point is defined as "any part of the player's body" that touches the playing surface. However, there's almost always a layer of clothing such as a shoe between the player's body and the playing surface. Does that count?

Yes. The phrase "part of the player's body" should be interpreted to include not only clothing but also mobility devices such as canes or crutches (as long as they are providing support).

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

QA-STA-1: A supporting point is defined as "any part of the player's body" that touches the playing surface. However, there's almost always a layer of clothing such as a shoe between the player's body and the playing surface. Does that count?

Yes. The phrase "part of the player's body" should be interpreted to include not only clothing but also mobility devices such as canes or crutches (as long as they are providing support).

Hmmm I was thinking more of an impairment or physical limitation that would cause a more favorable ruling with regards to footing, especially if the slope/shot was reversed and facing downhill hence more dangerous.

Now I'm wondering about the advantage of a improving your lie with having a supporting point (crutch) and then reaching out around a tree. Haha in which case we are back to the body and Footwear, and respectfully you are wrong. Gotcha Steve haha

 

[Steve West]

Hmmm I was thinking more of an impairment or physical limitation that would cause a more favorable ruling with regards to footing, especially if the slope/shot was reversed and facing downhill hence more dangerous.

Now I'm wondering about the advantage of a improving your lie with having a supporting point (crutch) and then reaching out around a tree. Haha in which case we are back to the body and Footwear, and respectfully you are wrong. Gotcha Steve haha

I'm not sure how it is possible to be wrong by quoting part of the rules.

Here are a couple of interpretations, which could - at least in theory - be wrong:

"Mobility device" is in there so you can't lean on a cart or umbrella or a cane you just carry around for this purpose.

Even the mobility device needs to be where it is legal to have a supporting point.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Haha damn I didn't realize that was the PDGA answer down at the bottom. I thought I had bested the West

 

[krupicka]

I would definitely have slid if I had stood with both feet on the slope.

I would not have slid if I had put 1 foot on the flat ground and the other foot on the slope...would I have been forced to take a stance with 1 leg up on the slope?

I want to say that since I could not put both feet on the slope without slidding down I should get to mark my lie at the bottom of the slope. Is that right?

I don't think it matters, but the red arrow indicates the direction to the basket.

So that's the thing the direction to the basket should not determine whether or not a surface is a playing surface. Either it is or it isn't.

 

[glassila]

I have in the past given instructions to players for some courses that if they are not able to stay put on a surface without sliding, it is not a playing surface.

That makes sense. If you unable to take a stance on a surface, it's not a playing surface.