Jonathan Wrights "why you struggle to brace, part 2, the run up"

[Kennets]

https://youtu.be/VNr0kNK9BGQ

I need to wrap my head around this and thought you nerds (kisses and hugs) could help me with that.

Not even sure how to explain this, so bare with me. I've always had the expression that i would need to "rise" up in the xstep and then drop into the plant. He shows loads of examples where people rise in the "launch" step (spelling?), The xstep barely touches the ground and that leads into the plant/brace. He speaks about how the xstep really ruins the weight shift for many people (like me perhaps?).

Someone please explain this to me, like I'm 5.

 

[Kennets]

He speaks about the natural tendency is to rise in the xstep (up and forward) which leads to planting on top of it, instead of behind it. While rising in the last step before the xstep, the left leg (rhbh) just carries the weight forward without messing up the weight carrying into the plant.

 

[jupiterboy]

This is/has been a primary issue for me. I don't gel well with this coaches verbal style, but I have recognized that I have an upward thrust at release and I plow through the brace like a city bus. Now I'm getting more force into the plant. Someone was posting up about measurement of some pros downforce in the plant and it was pretty extreme.

 

[Kennets]

This is/has been a primary issue for me. I don't gel well with this coaches verbal style, but I have recognized that I have an upward thrust at release and I plow through the brace like a city bus. Now I'm getting more force into the plant. Someone was posting up about measurement of some pros downforce in the plant and it was pretty extreme.

Well, I'm heading to the field (for the first time in a year) and gonna have a go at it.

1. Doing my usual "rise in the xstep"

2. Rising on the last step before the xstep

Just to get a feeling if i get a better brace..

I'll report back shortly, lol

 

[jupiterboy]

Well, I'm heading to the field (for the first time in a year) and gonna have a go at it.

1. Doing my usual "rise in the xstep"

2. Rising on the last step before the xstep

Just to get a feeling if i get a better brace..

I'll report back shortly, lol

Once I recognized the issue, the solution or partial solution came a bit by chance. One part was that I was sitting up in my stance when I needed to put my weight out over my feet a bit more. The other was that I was cheating the coil, because I'm old and it hurts a little. Once I started getting more coil, it kicked/staggered my plant foot very naturally, and I was falling a bit into the plant. The other part was keeping my chest closed. I had never understood to try and stop my shoulder rotation when the returned to inline with the throw line. Both of those changes have increased my downforce in the plant, and I'm getting a some easy distance, but best of all, the accuracy I was missing. Good luck!

 

[TractorFox]

I see you also have long-form hyper-specific form videos recommended to you. I'm sure we're not alone here.

I feel that the terminology used in the video and the discussion around it is vague. For instance, I don't know what forward means in "up and forward."

My TLDW after I watched the first time was that that if your body moves upwards with the xstep, you're doing it wrong. It sounds like you guys took away something similar.

https://youtu.be/VNr0kNK9BGQ
The xstep barely touches the ground and that leads into the plant/brace.

I was actually coming here to ask about this. This seems to challenge my idea of using the back foot to brace against in the backswing. I'm not sure how to interpret this.

 

[Brychanus]

Best non-hyperverbal illustration of an X-hop/step I've seen illustrated. I found it more intuitive to understand in the context of a more traditional targetward-postured throw. X-hop ideally works the same moving more laterally carrying the momentum begun before the X horizontal & vertical down into the plant. Whatever you call it, you want to do what this guy is doing:

 

[Kennets]

Brychanus, imagine bracing that hard in our age, lol. Everything hurts just from looking at it.

I went to the field and tried it out, definitely something that needs time. It put my timing way off, made me plant open (horse stance) and generally put everything completely off.

Tried to incorporate it with a windmill 3 step walk-up and somehow managed to get the longest throw of the day, while in horse stance and hugging myself, out driving my usual walk-up by 50 feets.

 

[jupiterboy]

One thing that was an epiphany for me, was to get into a comfortable staggered stance, then coil your core. Bounce forward and feel the off (left in my case) shoulder driving the plant foot into the ground. You don't get that feel unless you are fully coiled, but it is a very obvious increase in downforce.

 

[Kennets]

One thing that was an epiphany for me, was to get into a comfortable staggered stance, then coil your core. Bounce forward and feel the off (left in my case) shoulder driving the plant foot into the ground. You don't get that feel unless you are fully coiled, but it is a very obvious increase in downforce.

Thanks man! Definitely something I'll try out asap! After being out for a year, the timing has gone out of the window and I'm chasing the feeling of a good throw.

 

[Brychanus]

I went to the field and tried it out, definitely something that needs time. It put my timing way off, made me plant open (horse stance) and generally put everything completely off.

Tried to incorporate it with a windmill 3 step walk-up and somehow managed to get the longest throw of the day, while in horse stance and hugging myself, out driving my usual walk-up by 50 feets.

There's no secret here - maximum momentum mastery & efficiency is a key to peak and reproducible power at low effort. But of course there is an impact cost of all-out throws even if you have peak form.

Compare Zelezny with young Simon and notice the similarities in the move before the "x-step" and the impact force landing in the plant. Make no mistake: smoothed out horizontal modern Simon is still spooling up plenty of ground force reaction in his plant with a chain and body that was already ready to handle it after a long form development from youth. It's just more hidden in his very smooth, balanced, mature form (which still involves a large vertical shift & compression).

Like young Simon, imagine all the time it took for Zelezny to build up to his world record level and how young he started in a family of javelin throwers. He overcame several hardships.

Brychanus, imagine bracing that hard in our age, lol. Everything hurts just from looking at it.

Not a surprise that I've shifted most of my own focus to more patiently building body resilience and swing efficiency at 80% or less at the ripe young age of 37. I want to always get closer to the Zelezny or Lizotte move mechanically, but labor under no delusions that my body can handle much of that kind of repeated peak impact, especially with my build. My body agrees with my brain for once ;-)

 

[jupiterboy]

Not a surprise that I've shifted most of my own focus to more patiently building body resilience and swing efficiency at 80% or less at the ripe young age of 37. I want to always get closer to the Zelezny or Lizotte move mechanically, but labor under no delusions that my body can handle much of that kind of repeated peak impact, especially with my build. My body agrees with my brain for once ;-)

Very worthy advice. I've moved slowly on form, and don't imagine I've arrived anywhere as of now. I am 57 and played my first tournament last weekend. It was 40 holes over two rounds in a day. I was tired, but was not sore the next day.

That would not have been the case my first or second season.

 

[blayed]

His model of the back foot transition contrasts with throwers like eagle and kristian kuoksa

https://youtu.be/XVIa0gORUaw?t=90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0PW2sVi2EQ

The best example of his model I really think is GG:
https://youtu.be/F4G29ieIKFY?t=5
or that video of young simon

I think this goes back to the vertical/horizontal throwing styles discussion. Both styles equally valid. I think he fell into the trap of thinking that drawing some curves leads to some sort of unique insight. I think he really just stumbled onto "vertical forces"

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Can't say I ever have "good" throws but the least worst power wise really focus on getting that plant leg planted before throwing. Then a kajilluon other things can be off anyway :wall:

 

[Sheep]

The X-step hurts a lot of people because they penguin walk.

You wanna glide into that brace, but they back forth back forth.

Then when you got guys who are big on disc golf "coaching" making video's as "how to be good, here is this observation I have and it must be the thing" and talking about the hips and how they gotta go up down up down... People start trying to do these stupid things and it breaks stuff further.

The main reason the x-step hurts people is just improperly using the x-step to load. No rhythm, no balance, no grace.

It's hard to emulate something that nobody ever teaches you properly, they just see people running really fast and try and emulate it spinning around backwards and throwing their hips and shoulders, and ..

It's just step step brace.

Thanks for the video link, added it to my watch later.

 

[HyzerRoc]

https://youtu.be/XVIa0gORUaw?t=90

Is Kuoksa leaning back in this image? Not sure if this is just a result of the angle he is filming at or if I have a misconception of what constitues leaning back but to me it looks like he is leaning away from the target and center his weight above his back foot while Eagle and GG stay more centered in your example.

The X-step hurts a lot of people because they penguin walk.

You wanna glide into that brace, but they back forth back forth.

Can you expand on the penguin walk and the glide into the x-step? Is the problem that people waddle in their x-step, putting weight on each of their feet one after another instead of shifting the weight laterally through the x-step? Sorry if that is something the video of the OP points out, I didn't have the time to watch it yet.

 

[Sheep]

Can you expand on the penguin walk and the glide into the x-step? Is the problem that people waddle in their x-step, putting weight on each of their feet one after another instead of shifting the weight laterally through the x-step? Sorry if that is something the video of the OP points out, I didn't have the time to watch it yet.

Glide.
Smooth.
Clean.

VS waddling back and forth and back and forth.

the weight shift shouldn't fully happen until the last step, so it should be glide and hit the brakes.

Not basically shifting weight into the front foot, then slamming it into the back foot.


It's just something I see with the penguin/duck waddle. like a cartoon character.

 

[HyzerRoc]

the weight shift shouldn't fully happen until the last step, so it should be glide and hit the brakes.

Not basically shifting weight into the front foot, then slamming it into the back foot.

This part makes a lot of sense for me and it is something that I got wrong in my head. I have recently struggled with my x-step and noticed I really way waddling through it. Yesterday I tried gliding through it with your tip in mind and it improved my x-step noticeably. So thanks for that.

 

[Jussi Alanko]

Is Kuoksa leaning back in this image? Not sure if this is just a result of the angle he is filming at or if I have a misconception of what constitues leaning back but to me it looks like he is leaning away from the target and center his weight above his back foot while Eagle and GG stay more centered in your example.



Can you expand on the penguin walk and the glide into the x-step? Is the problem that people waddle in their x-step, putting weight on each of their feet one after another instead of shifting the weight laterally through the x-step? Sorry if that is something the video of the OP points out, I didn't have the time to watch it yet.

I think that he is not leaning back, he is only in his back foot and are just taking the stride, propably camera angle lies a little bit...