[Innova] Juggernaut

[dekdo]

I don't think anyone with less than 450+ if not 500+ of power has any business throwing this lol

It seems to be a disc for really windy days only. I've had bubble rim pd2 s get turned in Florida winds before so I could see this being usable on occasion.

 

[GripEnemy]

They did a fundraiser run of halo XCals but not many have been released or had people review them. I wonder if that mold has lost some of its overstability like the Destroyer has these past couple years in Star plastic at least.

Interesting that this halo run has the Factory Store on the stamp, usually that means it won't be available elsewhere as a stock run. Curious if we'll see any tour series/CFR or regular stock Star/Champion runs in the future.

I was gonna grab one (or a couple) but I procrastinated a couple days and all that were left were overweight ones like 177+.

I personally don't care about the PDGA weight legality because I don't think 4 grams over is performance enhancing in any way, I just don't want a disc like that so heavy. Maybe if I could have grabbed some closer to 170...

 

[hisdudeness47]

I was gonna grab one (or a couple) but I procrastinated a couple days and all that were left were overweight ones like 177+.

I personally don't care about the PDGA weight legality because I don't think 4 grams over is performance enhancing in any way, I just don't want a disc like that so heavy. Maybe if I could have grabbed some closer to 170...

I often wonder if my overweight discs are beneficial and if I should be throwing them more. Gotta be better in wind and either less likely to flip or less likely to come out of a turn no? These can be very beneficial attributes, I think. I don't trust my own eyes so it's hard for me to judge whether this is true unless I specifically go to the field to test it. It is something I want to do someday. But if we bag max weight 175g drivers for their stability and wind capabilities instead of their 171g counterparts, can't we logically conclude that a 179g will be to the 175g what the 175g is to the 171g? Am I wrong? AM I WRONG?

 

[ian.w]

AM I WRONG?

Nah, I think you are right. It just might only be noticeable in extreme conditions.

 

[@CD-]

I often wonder if my overweight discs are beneficial and if I should be throwing them more. Gotta be better in wind and either less likely to flip or less likely to come out of a turn no? These can be very beneficial attributes, I think. I don't trust my own eyes so it's hard for me to judge whether this is true unless I specifically go to the field to test it. It is something I want to do someday. But if we bag max weight 175g drivers for their stability and wind capabilities instead of their 171g counterparts, can't we logically conclude that a 179g will be to the 175g what the 175g is to the 171g? Am I wrong? AM I WRONG?

Headwind increases both air speed and drag so heavier discs stall out at the end of flight more and are less affected by fluctuations in the wind. Those wind fluctuations (wind bounce) can alter the flight line (change release angle to be more flat -> anhyzer) & angle of attack (push the nose angle further down) and increase turn.

Did anyone receive their Juggernaut yet? would be interested in side by side comparison to a Max/Slab/Sabot.

 

[GripEnemy]

Is there a place to buy one for under $30 shipped? If so I'll cop one just to compare to my Xcals.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

Is there a place to buy one for under $30 shipped? If so I'll cop one just to compare to my Xcals.

There is a place, but not a place in the physical world...it exists ... in the future! Just wait a few and they will make more =)

 

[GripEnemy]

There is a place, but not a place in the physical world...it exists ... in the future! Just wait a few and they will make more =)

$33 shipped from Innova Pro Shop is wild

EDIT: I did it anyway

 

[gammaxgoblin]

$33 shipped from Innova Pro Shop is wild

EDIT: I did it anyway

Haha so did I but grabbed a couple more F2's and got free shipping....spend more to feel like I spend less...hmmmm

 

[Moose33]

$33 shipped from Innova Pro Shop is wild

EDIT: I did it anyway

Almost did then I backed off.

 

[@CD-]

Those David Wiggins Jr. throws are crazy, Calvin seems to think its just a 'utility' disc for him.

Curious if any of these pros will actually keep a Juggernaut in the bag even in calmer conditions and use it until it breaks in. I assume some of the overhand throwers like Big Jerm and Joel Freeman will keep one around to mess with.

I attached the profile pic from the Innova factory page which wasn't available when they were sold out the past couple days. Very blunt leading edge but a smooth transition to the flight plate dome.

 

[dekdo]

Those David Wiggins Jr. throws are crazy, Calvin seems to think its just a 'utility' disc for him.

Curious if any of these pros will actually keep a Juggernaut in the bag even in calmer conditions and use it until it breaks in. I assume some of the overhand throwers like Big Jerm and Joel Freeman will keep one around to mess with.

I attached the profile pic from the Innova factory page which wasn't available when they were sold out the past couple days. Very blunt leading edge but a smooth transition to the flight plate dome.

yeah think im gonna have to hold off...

OS destroyers should be fine for now

 

[wolfhaley]

$33 shipped from Innova Pro Shop is wild

EDIT: I did it anyway

That's pretty steep. Must be nice gettin that mobster mod money. I imagine you're now aligned with El Zenbot and getting a cut from the Cheez It money that's been running rampant in Dayton and last I heard set up a stronghold in East PA.


The "disc" you seem so excited about doesn't seem like it'd be great at shaping lines. Chopping them though...

Not to mention the connect in rural MO dealing Rocs...

 

[GripEnemy]

Not thrilled about it just figured it'd be nice to test and give an opinion on! I've been really good about buying discs the past year or two so figured why not splurg a bit.

 

[Serious-OLD]

Those David Wiggins Jr. throws are crazy, Calvin seems to think its just a 'utility' disc for him.

OMG that's overstable. Seems like the guys who did the Stiletto song might need to record a sequel track.

 

[mboss302]

Those David Wiggins Jr. throws are crazy.

They finally made a disc overstable for him :clap:. On another note I wonder how it compares to the PD3

 

[DanJon]

I kind of want one, even though I have no business throwing one, simply because of my old comic book nerd status.

 

[GripEnemy]

I haven't thrown it yet but I received mine yesterday, penned 173-175 scaled at 173.2. Confirmed it has the Xcaliber top, see the unique "pattern" of the removal of the patent number:

Recently purchased F2 Star

Juggernaut

The bottoms look very similar but there's an additional little lip of sorts making the Juggernaut taller. It's been years since I've thrown a Max so don't remember if they're comparable, nor have I tried any of Innova's newer high speed drivers. Not a clue if it's a unique bottom, slightly modified Xcal (Destroyer?) one, or if it's taken from another mold.

It does appear to have a spacer of sorts as well, very thick rim reminds me of a giant Banshee or something. Juggernauts are 1.7 height, Xcals 1.6 and in hand you can tell the former is deeper.

Side:
Juggernaut left, Proto E* Xcal right
Juggernaut left, 09' XG Xcal right
Juggernaut let, recent F2 Star Xcal right

Bottoms/side:
With Proto E*
With XG
With F2 Star

It's rough/textured similar to Blizzard in the rim.

Blizzard #1
Blizzard #2

Juggernaut
Max Weight: 175.1gr
Diameter: 21.1cm
Height: 1.7cm
Rim Depth: 1.2cm
Rim Thickness: 2.3cm
Inside Rim Diameter: 16.4cm
Rim Depth / Diameter Ratio: 5.7%
Rim Configuration: 26.50
Flexibility: 11.02kg

Xcaliber
Max Weight: 175.1gr
Diameter: 21.1cm
Height: 1.6cm
Rim Depth: 1.2cm
Rim Thickness: 2.3cm
Inside Rim Diameter: 16.4cm
Rim Depth / Diameter Ratio: 5.7%
Rim Configuration: 29.50
Flexibility: 8.85kg

 

[@CD-]

I haven't thrown it yet but I received mine yesterday, penned 173-175 scaled at 173.2. Confirmed it has the Xcaliber top, see the unique "pattern" of the removal of the patent number:

...

The bottoms look very similar but there's an additional little lip of sorts making the Juggernaut taller. It's been years since I've thrown a Max so don't remember if they're comparable, nor have I tried any of Innova's newer high speed drivers. Not a clue if it's a unique bottom, slightly modified Xcal (Destroyer?) one, or if it's taken from another mold.

It does appear to have a spacer of sorts as well, very thick rim reminds me of a giant Banshee or something.

I believe Innova used the 11 speed Wraith bottom/core with the Monster top to make the Max so maybe they decided to up the rim width with the 12 speed Destroyer/Xcal bottom/core and the same top with the Juggernaut.

The patent number removal happened to the core piece of the mold (which is usually kept with the bottom rim piece). My Infinite Slabs/HyzerBomb Sabots/Innova Wraiths all have a 4 part etch pattern. The 3 part etch pattern is common among all the 12 speed molds I listed here in various runs and the picture of the Juggernaut you shared:

PD2/Power Disc2, Destroyer, Scorpius, Emperor, TeeDevil, and XCal all have shared the same lower rim/core mold pieces as evidenced by the tooling/etched off patent numbers.

Any signs of the flat top process being used or does the Juggernaut have a bit of dome?

 

[gammaxgoblin]

I had my new halo wraith flip and stay turned to the ground on a 400' downhill shot into a 20mph headwind today. I then threw one of those collab edition starry champ test run destroyers and it did not flip thankfully....maybe there is a juggernaut need? lol probably not, OS flat top destroyer seems to fill the slot.