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Least Favorite course rated 4/5 or better?

It seems that private courses in general get very inflated ratings. I get it, the courses have countless hours of hard work and love poured into them. This doesn't mean that the course should be rated higher than a similar course that is maintained by a parks department in another town.

I agree. I think if the reviewer knows the course owner this is even more likely to be the case.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=6212

Hook's Hideaway is a good example. Andre is one of the nicest disc golfers you'll meet, and playing his course with him and his dogs with the roosters going off in the background was a treat. I always had a blast there. But if I were being completely objective and taking my friendship out of the equation, I would have to say I disagree with its score.

You can watch it here:



Fun course and amazing host, but watching this video do you think the raw golf holds up to other 4-4.5 rated courses you've played?

Then another issue is the owner themselves leaving a biased review, such as the case with Whistle Hop

This is the only disc golf course I've driven out to, taken one look at, then decided it wasn't worth getting out of my car. It was a few home made baskets in a small patch of grass with toddlers running around playing. It was more of a glorified putting practice setup than a disc golf course. IT was rated 4.0 before I reviewed it.
 
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The most overrated course that I've played has to be Renaissance. I tried to hit up all the highest-rated courses in Charlotte when work sent me out there for a week a couple years back. Perhaps it was my high expectations or I showed up when the course was in redesign mode but I had an awful day out there.

I found very little signage to help navigate. From some tees, I could see two or three baskets to throw to with no idea which one was correct. I'm an Eagle Scout, I had a map, and I still got hopelessly lost out there. I could see that course being a stellar layout if I had an experienced local to guide you but the design was not intuitive. I wouldn't return unless I hear the layout and signage has improved dramatically.

I agree with you 100% that the navigation can be extremely confusing. The old Gold / Gray combo was bad enough my first time playing, but with Renske in the mix its a little more confusing now.

That being said I wouldn't let navigational difficulties keep me from enjoying the best course in the area. It took me a long time to play it my first time, but I have zero regrets.


While I agree with the sentiment, I don't know how representative DGCR members are of disc golfers in general. The most played courses on DGCR might not equate to the most played in real life.

100% this.

Renny Gold has been on the top 10 played list as far back as I can remember. That's how I originally heard about it. I can't remember the last time I saw someone throwing the gold course. Seems like Renske is at least 95% of the DG traffic at Renaissance Park (Which includes 3 unique courses for those unfamiliar).

What is interesting to me is Angry Beaver always has people playing it. Angry is every bit as tough as Renny, if not more tough, so it makes me wonder why no one every throws Renny Gold.

Not complaining though. I love knowing I can have the areas best course to myself, save for waiting on groups playing Renske when I throw #11 and #12. Sucks facing a 1000' par 5 knowing 3 or 4 fairways from another course cross it. Tough to bomb one out when its a busy day..I often end up skipping it...

RL Smith
Deis Hill
Rolling Pines
Lester Lorch - Beaver and Coyote
Town Lake
Maple Hill

I'll always disagree with people thinking Deis Hill is overrated. Add a handful of trees and its close to perfect IMO. Unpopular opinion, but I've always felt peoples conditioning and lack of distance colors their view on that one too much. Sure #1, #13 and #18 are on the too open side, but from some reviews you'd think there aren't any wooded holes. Half the course is wooded. Stuff like #2, #5, #6, #7, #17 etc. aren't wide open bombers. It has some of the most memorable holes I've played, the best tee signs I've ever seen, killer elevation, three sets of tees and it's usually empty. It was one of the first courses I've played and 100+ courses later I miss it like hell. It's always first on my list when I vacation in Ohio.

Rolling Pines I'm curious what you didn't like about it. If someone asked me what a disc golf course should be, Rolling Pines is one of the first courses that comes to mind. Secluded, challenging, wooded with barely any undergrowth to eat your discs.

And Rolling Pines for NC. Pretty land, nicely installed but BORING golf.

Curious to hear your take as well. Why'd you find it boring? Which tees did you throw?


Leviathan is underrated.

Glad to hear it, I'm trying to visit it this year.

A general observation on the comments in this thread is several of the courses identified were either too easy or more likely a bit too difficult for the poster, i.e., not in their preferred skill range. Perhaps an argument for additional tees in some cases?

I'd imagine most players want a fair, moderately challenging course. I'm biased towards tough courses. At the risk of sounding full of myself I haven't played a course that I consider too difficult. I've certainly played courses I didn't have the skillset for, e.g. playing Angry Beaver for the first time after spending 5 years playing mostly open courses, but that motivated me as a player rather than discouraged me.

I think to a degree, you're only as good as you need to be. The first course I played had multiple holes where being able to throw 450-500' was beneficial, so that was what I expected to need to do when I started disc golf. Someone learning golf in Charlotte is going to favor accuracy over distance, which is something I had to adapt to. This is why I think playing a variety of courses is so important. eing able to throw -8 at your home course doesn't guarantee you'll shoot under par at another course.
 
Curious to hear your take as well. Why'd you find it boring? Which tees did you throw?

A combination of both tees. I think the opening holes and finishing holes (1,2, 16, 17, 18) are really bland. Same with 9, 10. I think the two shot holes (12 and 15) are the best designed holes out there. Just didn't get wowed by the design to make it the best course in the state.
 
It seems that private courses in general get very inflated ratings. I get it, the courses have countless hours of hard work and love poured into them. This doesn't mean that the course should be rated higher than a similar course that is maintained by a parks department in another town.

Perhaps.

Or perhaps, sometimes.

I'm a private course owner, so what do I know? It would be great to think reviewers are being nice because they like me, or respect the work we've done.

But I'm also a player, and my personal favorites list is dominated by private courses---some of which I've met the owners, some not. But regardless of ownership, these are the courses I'd most like to play, most often, if given the chance.

How do you sort out whether reviews are inflated because of personal friendship or admiration, versus those that are high because private courses are free to do things public courses can't; free to design with fewer restrictions; able to avoid conflicts with other park users; and often on properties better, disc-golf-wise or aesthetically, than land public parks can offer?
 
For me, it's RL Smith.

Over the years I've watched numerous people visit Charlotte, a mecca for disc golf, and come away with RL as their favorite course.

Wow there is lots here, ill do my best.

I've watched people rate it 4, 4.5, 5...thinking, why?

I kind of agree but only because Charlotte typically gives its courses lower ratings than other areas. We do not have a group of people dedicated to inflating ratings (like IDLEWILD) where if you offer a thoughtful review less than 4.5 you get hammered. We are literally too concerned with ACTUALLY making courses good, than making them look good, falsly online. That being said, RL WOULD be a 4-5 i most disc golf areas, especially the ones that inflate their own ratings.

RL currently has a 4.15 rating. Nevin, Renny Gold, and Hornets Nest, Charlottes 3 premiere courses in my eyes, currently are within .10 points of that rating.

How?

I just don't see it.


Its the deck and the rocks and the creek and the woods for many people

I've made repeated trips to RL Smith, always fueled by a 4/5+ review. Maybe I'm missing something, I'd think.

Nope.

I played it again today, and still, I don't see it.


To me the course is in the 3.25-3.75 range.

Probably in its average state and if other courses in the country were rated correctly, yes, but it is heads and shoulders above most 3.5 rated courses in design and upkeep.

It has some tricky holes, but it isn't as challenging as the 3 other courses I mentioned. It has some neat holes, but none of them are as memorable as say, #18 at Renny Gold, #2 at Renny Gold (One of the coolest upshots ever IMO), #18 at Nevin, etc.

1. If you dont see 18 at RL as signature, you can't be helped. If you stand there almost everyone empties their bag on that hole. Ive never witnessed a lost disc on 18. If people are emptying their bag on a hole, its a signature hole. You are right, outside of 12 the rest of the course lacks that aspect, but who cares. You can't force a signature hole if one isnt able to be made.

2. RL time and time again plays, according to par, as hard as Nevin, Nest, Renny Gold, or Elon Angry. You can score there but you can also die there. There is way less risk at Nevin than RL Smith.
I am unsure that I can trust your reviews if challenging is the only way you get to 4-5 disc rating. Water, elevation, beautiful cedar benches and deck, perched baskets, old wells, signage, quiet are all amenities that add to ratings where challenge might even take away from the rating of a course. Also, your reviews tend to try to prove how great you are at disc golf, always taking away points because a course is "too easy." same with your videos, edited to tell the story of how well you play disc golf. Just based on this, I dont really give credit to your actual abilities and chalk it mostly up to bluster.

Half the holes are what I consider gimmie holes. some of them don't even feel like very good golf holes, they feel more or less like they're there to fill in the space.

16 is a terrible hole 4 is bad and the OB around the course is not good besides that, I dont know if you have a handle on what may or may not be good design, perhaps when you are so good at disc golf all challenge becomes a blur. Sure 12 is an easy hole, but throwing off the deck to those beautiful rocks is more about the experience there than whether you get a 2 or not...but regardless. Ill take that hole to explain something about design. (I did not design RL.) Hole 12, short and easy right? Nope not that simple. The hole asks you to ace run, it begs you. When you submit and run it you dont realize there is a gentile slope behind the basket, now you are 25ft long looking at a death putt. Your easy 2 on a beautiful hole becomes a 4 or 5 and then you are given a 300ft transition to think about it. there is more to that hole than a 230ft wooded shot. If you dont see those kind of things in the other holes maybe we should have a discuss each hole at RL thread.

I see lots of land that looks like it would have made for more interesting golf when I play here. I wonder why it wasn't used?

You use the land you are allowed to. Period.

The rest of the land is reserved for future phases that include ballfields and roads and all sorts of things. But since you wrote this statement, I assume that you walked the rest of the property to see all the other neat land features? Nope probably not or you would have seen that they found the best land within the area they were given.

This course never establishes much of a rhythm IMO. Its a weird mix of easy, gimmie birdies, then tricky Par 3's, with 3 easy Par 4's thrown in the mix. It never really feels easy or challenging, it just hovers between the two.

Here we go again. I've never played with you, but I'd love to see you show me how to easily navigate 5 and 9. I've seen the score cards, 5 years of pros and amatures would love to get lessons too. Its driving me crazy, I can only think of 2 par 4s. Unless you consider 4 a par 4...it is not, it is a 3 on all documentation.

Every time I come here, I walk away with cut up shins, tons of bug bites, soaked in sweat. The first few holes are just open enough to let you get soaked in sweat as you're exposed to the warm Charlotte sun, then the up and down elevation on the shaded #4-18 makes it tough to get dry.

The rough here is abysmal. I'm talking there are holes you can ace run (#3, #18, etc.), drive 10' deep of the basket, and never see your disc again. It's just dumb how bad certain holes are.


There are spiderwebs everywhere.

Really? i've combed this review...after the last few lines...im sure you must have marked it down for Airport noise, smell of the sewer line, and distance from parking lot to first hole.

Combine that with the terrible rough and the wooded nature of this course, and even if you don't throw into the rough someone in your group is bound to. Rounds at RL always take a while because someone always loses a disc in the rough, and someone always throws into the stream on #4, etc.

I've given this course so many chances but frankly I just don't see the appeal. I live within a half hour drive and play RL less than once a year.


Just you man...its just you. I have a critical eye for rough. I dont find Rl overly abusive. Also if you live in Charlotte, you are a half an hour from like 70 courses, so not a big deal that you rarely get to RL.

If I want a quick, easy to play 18 hole course, I'll go to Renske or Winget. If I want to be challenged, I'll go to Nevin or Renny Gold. RL falls in a weird gray area where its not a quick, convenient to play course like Winget or Kilborne, but its not as challenging at Charlottes best courses.

So RL is my pick. Its rated the same (essentially) as the best Charlotte has to offer, when its my 6th or 7th favorite course within Charlotte's 485 loop. IMO Renny Gold, Nevin and Hornets Nest are clearly a cut above RL, but for some reason there has never been any scoring separation between the 4 courses over the past 3 years.

Just don't get it. RL isn't a bad course by any standard, but its completely insane to me that its rated the same as Nevin, Hornets Nest and Renny Gold. Its more tedious to play and less challenging.


RL is challenging and has amenities not found in other courses that can, in some people's eyes bring it to the level of courses you mentioned. For example. The benches at RL are sick, the practice field by the practice basket is pretty sweet, and the soccer fields right there are a great amenity. At hole 1 there is a large full sized map of the layout in a kiosk, water hazards add points to some people. In all these things RL exceeds, Nevin, Renny, Nest. So it gains in those areas and the others gain in other areas. Its not really mind blowing.

PS. OB at RL is not great in my opinion, 4 7 16 arent great holes...poor IMO.
 
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holy ****... Hardly worth the read let alone that long of a response.

People like different stuff.. Who cares?
 
How do you sort out whether reviews are inflated because of personal friendship or admiration, versus those that are high because private courses are free to do things public courses can't; free to design with fewer restrictions; able to avoid conflicts with other park users; and often on properties better, disc-golf-wise or aesthetically, than land public parks can offer?

By playing the courses.
 
A combination of both tees. I think the opening holes and finishing holes (1,2, 16, 17, 18) are really bland. Same with 9, 10. I think the two shot holes (12 and 15) are the best designed holes out there. Just didn't get wowed by the design to make it the best course in the state.

I didn't think 1 was too bad, but 2, 17 and 18 I'd agree. In fact I was surprised most by 18...I thought it'd end with something a bit more memorable. I still consider it very, very high quality.

What are your favorite NC courses? Always looking for new destinations.

Here we go again. I've never played with you, but I'd love to see you show me how to easily navigate 5 and 9. I've seen the score cards, 5 years of pros and amatures would love to get lessons too. Its driving me crazy, I can only think of 2 par 4s. Unless you consider 4 a par 4...it is not, it is a 3 on all documentation.



The current tee sign for 4 has it listed as a par 4. Last time I went there it was a par 3. I don't know, I'm not the one making these decisions.

I'll be uploading another video of RL soon featuring me and my friend.
 
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I'm not sure what's tough about 5 or 9.

5 throw two flicks and drop it in for a birdie. It's a very simple par 4.

9 is a bit trickier, but all you have to do is throw something straight to fade that clears the mando and doesn't go too long straight. I typically take a 3 there as well, sometimes have a good look at a 2 but I've only gotten an eagle on it once or twice. No bogies, couple pars.

#12 is very easy too. Just throw a putter straight at the rocks at the base of the basket and tap in a bird.

5 years of pros and amatures would love to get lessons too..... Also, your reviews tend to try to prove how great you are at disc golf, always taking away points because a course is "too easy." same with your videos, edited to tell the story of how well you play disc golf. Just based on this, I dont really give credit to your actual abilities and chalk it mostly up to bluster.

I think we can discuss courses without being condescending :rolleyes: I find certain courses easy, and that is a legitimate opinion. Don't know why that rustles peoples jimmies so much. If a course doesn't challenge me I will not rate it as high as one that does.

pure bluster :rolleyes:
 
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I didn't think 1 was too bad, but 2, 17 and 18 I'd agree. In fact I was surprised most by 18...I thought it'd end with something a bit more memorable. I still consider it very, very high quality.

What are your favorite NC courses? Always looking for new destinations.

Getting onto Blackjack (private) is always worth it. I need to make it out to Sugaree. I think Nevin and Castle Hayne (haven't been there since last redesign on front 9) are the best designs as in use of land and creation of good golf lines and are the shining example of what I think "Carolina Golf" is. Locally I think Dry Creek and Stumpy Creek are really underrated, very different but really well designed. I personally slot them above Bradford and RL Smith in that second echelon of CLT area courses (behind Nevin, Winthrop and Nest). I've never liked how stuffed in the section of 3-7 at Renny Gold feels.

My revised Charlotte top 15 (in order I want to play):

Nevin
Winthrop Gold (with ropes)
Hornets Nest
Dry Creek
Rennaisance Gold
Stumpy Creek
RL Smith
Bradford
Scrapyard
Kilborne
Robbins
Winget
Elon - Angry Beaver
Reedy
 
Getting onto Blackjack (private) is always worth it. I need to make it out to Sugaree. I think Nevin and Castle Hayne (haven't been there since last redesign on front 9) are the best designs as in use of land and creation of good golf lines and are the shining example of what I think "Carolina Golf" is. Locally I think Dry Creek and Stumpy Creek are really underrated, very different but really well designed. I personally slot them above Bradford and RL Smith in that second echelon of CLT area courses (behind Nevin, Winthrop and Nest). I've never liked how stuffed in the section of 3-7 at Renny Gold feels.

My revised Charlotte top 15 (in order I want to play):

Nevin
Winthrop Gold (with ropes)
Hornets Nest
Dry Creek
Rennaisance Gold
Stumpy Creek
RL Smith
Bradford
Scrapyard
Kilborne
Robbins
Winget
Elon - Angry Beaver
Reedy

Thanks for the list. I keep hearing good things about Blackjack. I'll have to check out Stumpy, I've heard similar things from others.

Sugaree is definitely worth the trip. It's one of the more unique disc golf experiences I've had. Incredibly peaceful, very scenic, and its plain fun.

For fun I took the courses in your list, took out the ones I haven't played, and arranged them to suit my preferences.


Rennaisance Gold
Hornets Nest
Nevin
Angry Beaver
Winthrop Gold (with ropes)
Scrapyard
RL Smith
Dry Creek
Bradford
Reedy
Winget
Kilborne
Robbins

Dry Creek is an interesting course. I've only played it twice (Back to back in one day). I appreciated that it had some lengthier holes, something I often find lacking in the shorter 18 hole courses. Some of the wooded holes towards the halfway to 2/3 mark left me unimpressed. They felt pretty short and cramped at times and didn't do much for me. Overall I'd agree, its an underrated course with good variety. I like how it's half open half wooded.
 
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Thanks for the list. I keep hearing good things about Blackjack. I'll have to check out Stumpy, I've heard similar things from others.

Sugaree is definitely worth the trip. It's one of the more unique disc golf experiences I've had. Incredibly peaceful, very scenic, and its plain fun.

For fun I took the courses in your list, took out the ones I haven't played, and arranged them to suit my preferences.


Rennaisance Gold
Hornets Nest
Nevin
Angry Beaver
Winthrop Gold (with ropes)
Scrapyard
RL Smith
Dry Creek
Bradford
Reedy
Winget
Kilborne
Robbins

Dry Creek is an interesting course. I've only played it twice (Back to back in one day). I appreciated that it had some lengthier holes, something I often find lacking in the shorter 18 hole courses. Some of the wooded holes towards the halfway to 2/3 mark left me unimpressed. They felt pretty short and cramped at times and didn't do much for me. Overall I'd agree, its an underrated course with good variety. I like how it's half open half wooded.

We are really lucky to have a top 15 within 30 minutes where all of the courses are legit >3.0.
 
Getting onto Blackjack (private) is always worth it. I need to make it out to Sugaree. I think Nevin and Castle Hayne (haven't been there since last redesign on front 9) are the best designs as in use of land and creation of good golf lines and are the shining example of what I think "Carolina Golf" is. Locally I think Dry Creek and Stumpy Creek are really underrated, very different but really well designed. I personally slot them above Bradford and RL Smith in that second echelon of CLT area courses (behind Nevin, Winthrop and Nest). I've never liked how stuffed in the section of 3-7 at Renny Gold feels.

My revised Charlotte top 15 (in order I want to play):

Nevin
Winthrop Gold (with ropes)
Hornets Nest
Dry Creek
Rennaisance Gold
Stumpy Creek
RL Smith
Bradford
Scrapyard
Kilborne
Robbins
Winget
Elon - Angry Beaver
Reedy

I don't like nice Hell'della
 
I'm not sure what's tough about 5 or 9.

5 throw two flicks and drop it in for a birdie. It's a very simple par 4.

9 is a bit trickier, but all you have to do is throw something straight to fade that clears the mando and doesn't go too long straight. I typically take a 3 there as well, sometimes have a good look at a 2 but I've only gotten an eagle on it once or twice. No bogies, couple pars.

#12 is very easy too. Just throw a putter straight at the rocks at the base of the basket and tap in a bird.



I think we can discuss courses without being condescending :rolleyes: I find certain courses easy, and that is a legitimate opinion. Don't know why that rustles peoples jimmies so much. If a course doesn't challenge me I will not rate it as high as one that does.

pure bluster :rolleyes:

I wasn't intentionally trying to be condesending, however Im trying to point out a flaw in your reviews that also manifests itself in your videos (which are GREAT by the way)

When you start off reviewing a course by determining whether it is challenging or not limits your validity, in my opinion. Especially when you have such a high impression of your own abilites. To me its akin to giving a positive nod to something just because it is local, or because it simply has a pond in it or whatever other silly reasons that people review courses. You are reviewing a course for you personally, and you appear to be very proud of your ability. I think reviews should be for others, why else put out a public review. To what end are you being helpful by putting out a review that is framed by your amazing ability to make the most difficult holes on a course seem easy? Your reviews and posts come off as even the opposite, like you purposely say how easy hard holes are, thats how I enter looking at your reviews or videos...because you discuss it so much.

What is actually helpful is reviewing a course in a way where players can decide whether they want to test their skills against it...not figure out whether their skills match up to yours first (by watching you shoot 18 under in a video) then comparing that metric to the course or your review. Its always flawed because you put off an air of perfection which obvously isnt the truth.

I hover around 1000 rated depending on injuries and course work. I have at least an idea what holes are difficult and which are not and at the very least I review scores and score cards so I have data on my side. As the person that is in charge of keeping courses fair in Charlotte, i look at that stuff. Your reviews come off as more of self promotion than they do actually helpful.

Ive played 250 in 42 states. Many of the most challenging courses I've played would be in the bottom 30 courses I've played. Challenging by no means means designed well, safe, pretty, fun, or even logistically able to follow.

Reviewing courses based on your own perceived skill level seems a bit lazy, non helpful, and the whole premise of the opening post reads to me like: "Im so good at disc golf that I found RL Smith easy, thus it is over rated." I haven't met many players including traveling pro's that determined there was a lack of challenge at RL Smith. Im honestly not even disagreeing with the disc rating. Punative OB, substandard holes here and there, risk of a deadly flash flood, unfair asks of the drive/putting surface, seasonal maintenance concerns along hole 2,3,18, erosion over teepads, and long transitions might be more helpful.
 
Reviews are subjective, and challenge plays a big role in how I score a course because it severely affects my enjoyment of golf.

I try to point out when I think most golfers would enjoy a course despite me not caring for it due to perceived lack of challenge. e.g. my Robbins Park review, I gave it a low rating because I found it quite easy, but I mentioned its a course that I feel would appeal to most disc golfers.

I have come away from certain courses not as impressed as I expected to be for this very reason. If it affects how much I enjoy myself its going in the review.

PS the airplanes are really annoying at RL and Winget when trying to film :p
 
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Concur on the Idlewild. Very good course. Not a top ten by any means. I just don't think the land is scenic enough to put it in the great category. The cargo jets flying by don't help it either.
 
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