Leverage

[Chains Bailey]

I believe the word we are looking for is "clout"
According to the Google search

2. INFORMAL
influence or power, especially in politics or business.
"I knew he carried a lot of clout"

Although, I do not have enough clout to leverage my position in a dictatorial fashion...

I DEMAND we stick with DEMAND!

 

[Shamis]

I think Simon Lizotte has as much power as Mcbeth, if not more. Lizotte is very marketable. He throws exciting shots. He's got charisma, and he throws very far. All those things are great for marketing. Mcbeth is just the best player.

 

[biscoe]

I think Simon Lizotte has as much power as Mcbeth, if not more. Lizotte is very marketable. He throws exciting shots. He's got charisma, and he throws very far. All those things are great for marketing. Mcbeth is just the best player.

McBeth is more savvy about building his brand than any other disc golfer has ever been...and he's the best player.

 

[Chains Bailey]

I think Simon Lizotte has as much power as Mcbeth, if not more. Lizotte is very marketable. He throws exciting shots. He's got charisma, and he throws very far. All those things are great for marketing. Mcbeth is just the best player.

Simon is very marketable, but does not remotely move product near the level PMcBeth does. Also, I would venture a guess that Simon does not make 1/35th of what PMcBeth does after all is added up at years end.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

It's hard to tell because of how the different companies operate. I don't think anyone on team Innova will ever be bigger than Innova. DD announced its lack of willingness to shift branding/operations/vision w/how they handled PP. Prodigy, though worker owned, feels more like a brand collective to me than "clout" for one player. Discmania does not have a big enough United States footprint. This is to say it's hard to test one's clout within current operations. Could Sexton do better than being the Firebird man? The two players who had clout leveraged their clout but only because Discraft was willing to take risks. It's one stop shopping at this point, and no one can make Discraft do anything or force the hand of other manufacturers.

The wild cards are Nikko with Westside and Drew with Infinite. I wish The Upshot guys would have asked Nikko how he made sense of Westside's joint ownership in relation to his own vision. Were I DD and partners, I'd let Nikko go hog wild with crazy Westside ideas. It's an orphan company of sorts, so Nikko makes sense. I'm not sure what to make of Drew's situation. Neither of them have clout, but they both have opportunities to change the market in meaningful ways.

The next players with clout are likely not fully on our radar at the moment, I'd suggest.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

The shorter answer is the next person to win two world championships not named Paul or Paige given they already have a social media presence.

 

[Chains Bailey]

The shorter answer is the next person to win two world championships not named Paul or Paige given they already have a social media presence.

This is just absurd. You could not name one player, who if they won worlds next year, could pull off a $250,000 annual deal - add that the deal is guaranteed for another three years at $250,000 and the discussion is basically over.

$250,000 is the BASE, as far as I understand. I would love to know if ANY other players have even topped the $30K to 50K BASE pay mark. I doubt it. PP would be my guess to be another player that has a high BASE pay, but I would think it is lower than $30K and based much more on performance and specific disc sales.

Someone that is super popular and a greatly skilled player (As well as my favorite player - James Conrad) was concerned with just paying his van off by the end of the year in 2019. At that level and the fact that the van was not bought FOR him should give an idea of what the "TOP" players are being afforded.

I do not think most people realize the extraordinary separation of PMcBeth's BASE pay + annual earnings over everyone else.

I would guess that he makes the equivalent, if not more than, entire manufacturer teams combined, when just looking at sponsor contracts. I would also guess that the very top players could add their BASE pay and ALL other income from the entire year and none would reach the $250,000 mark.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

This is just absurd. You could not name one player, who if they won worlds next year, could pull off a $250,000 annual deal - add that the deal is guaranteed for another three years at $250,000 and the discussion is basically over.

$250,000 is the BASE, as far as I understand. I would love to know if ANY other players have even topped the $30K to 50K BASE pay mark. I doubt it. PP would be my guess to be another player that has a high BASE pay, but I would think it is lower than $30K and based much more on performance and specific disc sales.

Someone that is super popular and a greatly skilled player (As well as my favorite player - James Conrad) was concerned with just paying his van off by the end of the year in 2019. At that level and the fact that the van was not bought FOR him should give an idea of what the "TOP" players are being afforded.

I do not think most people realize the extraordinary separation of PMcBeth's BASE pay + annual earnings over everyone else.

I would guess that he makes the equivalent, if not more than, entire manufacturer teams combined, when just looking at sponsor contracts. I would also guess that the very top players could add their BASE pay and ALL other income from the entire year and none would reach the $250,000 mark.

Your passionate response pretty much ignores the criteria I established.

 

[JuanA]

I don't think it needs to be a current DG player. The word clout has been tossed out there, and I agree.

What would happen if someone like Brodie decided to give disc golf a serious try, and bring his 2.2 million YouTube subscribers with him? I love watching Paul play, but does he have the audience to compete with Brodie? At 24K subscribers, he's not even in the same ballpark. All the current DG pros combined can't match Brodie's exposure.

This business is about money, and what company would turn down 2.2 million viewers?

 

[jakebake91]

I don't think it needs to be a current DG player. The word clout has been tossed out there, and I agree.

What would happen if someone like Brodie decided to give disc golf a serious try, and bring his 2.2 million YouTube subscribers with him? I love watching Paul play, but does he have the audience to compete with Brodie? At 24K subscribers, he's not even in the same ballpark. All the current DG pros combined can't match Brodie's exposure.

This business is about money, and what company would turn down 2.2 million viewers?

Do you think a guy like Brodie would give up everything he has, work hard to become a touring pro, and actually complete with guys that have been disc golfing at a high level for a very long time? I know that guy is super talented and all, but do you think he could get to a point where he is competing at a high level? And if he's not competing at a high level, you think he deserves a sponsorship just because he brings YouTube followers with him? There are lots of internet famous people out there, should we sponsor all of them?

 

[JuanA]

Would a guy like Brodie turn down a $1M+ contract if it was offered to him to promote a brand?

He could finish dead last in every tournament he entered, and still be the most known player out there.

I'm not a big Brodie fan, but numbers are numbers. He has them.

 

[Chains Bailey]

Your passionate response pretty much ignores the criteria I established.

No - I read it. Same response.

 

[Chains Bailey]

I don't think it needs to be a current DG player. The word clout has been tossed out there, and I agree.

What would happen if someone like Brodie decided to give disc golf a serious try, and bring his 2.2 million YouTube subscribers with him? I love watching Paul play, but does he have the audience to compete with Brodie? At 24K subscribers, he's not even in the same ballpark. All the current DG pros combined can't match Brodie's exposure.

This business is about money, and what company would turn down 2.2 million viewers?

This is interesting. A person with limited disc golf skill, but could make a company a lot of money.

Now, a person walking into any manufacturer with 2.2 million viewers would definitely have leverage when negotiating.

Wonder if Brodie and PMcBeth both walked in at the same time and asked for he same sponsor contract, who would they go with?

*Not a Brodie fan - like fingernails on a chalkboard.

 

[jakebake91]

Would a guy like Brodie turn down a $1M+ contract if it was offered to him to promote a brand?

He could finish dead last in every tournament he entered, and still be the most known player out there.

I'm not a big Brodie fan, but numbers are numbers. He has them.

My question tho is why would a dg company give that kind of contract to a guy who might finish dead last? How does that showcase their products? That doesn't make business sense. What percentage of his followers are going to go buy company x discs because they sponsored him? Betcha it's not worth the investment

 

[jakebake91]

If popularity was all that mattered, Michael Jordan should have made millions playing baseball, right?

 

[JuanA]

My question tho is why would a dg company give that kind of contract to a guy who might finish dead last? How does that showcase their products? That doesn't make business sense. What percentage of his followers are going to go buy company x discs because they sponsored him? Betcha it's not worth the investment

Good points, but consider:

Dale Earnhardt Jr. never won a Championship at NASCAR's highest level during his entire career, and has a net worth of $400M.

During Jr.'s career Jimmie Johnson won 7 Championships and is worth $120M.

Why?

Because during Johnson's career, Jr. was ranked the most popular driver for 15 years straight.

I'm sure there are marketing people on this forum that can explain it better than me, but I don't think Championships mean that much to the average consumer anymore. We live in a social media age.

I still don't understand the Kardashians, but we all know who they are.

 

[JuanA]

If popularity was all that mattered, Michael Jordan should have made millions playing baseball, right?

But he made millions endorsing products. That's all a sponsorship is really.

 

[Chains Bailey]

My question tho is why would a dg company give that kind of contract to a guy who might finish dead last? How does that showcase their products? That doesn't make business sense. What percentage of his followers are going to go buy company x discs because they sponsored him? Betcha it's not worth the investment

I have the same questions and this would be a first in our sport.

I do not know enough about mass numbers of viewers turning into $ to take a guess, but it is interesting.

In the same vein, wonder if a company putting a very reasonable investment in the "Underdog", think LLoyd Weema, would pay off?

Hypothetical - Pay Lloyd's entry fees and lodging for 15 of the largest events = $5000ish' - could they sell over that in signature Weema' plastic?

I guess it is a risk - sponsoring Weema may backfire and be seen as diminishing the "Quality" of that brand or people may see the FUN in the idea and jump on board. Maybe the same applies to the risk of signing a person like Brodie.

 

[jakebake91]

Good points, but consider:

Dale Earnhardt Jr. never won a Championship at NASCAR's highest level during his entire career, and has a net worth of $400M.

During Jr.'s career Jimmie Johnson won 7 Championships and is worth $120M.

Why?

Because during Johnson's career, Jr. was ranked the most popular driver for 15 years straight.

I'm sure there are marketing people on this forum that can explain it better than me, but I don't think Championships mean that much to the average consumer anymore. We live in a social media age.

I still don't understand the Kardashians, but we all know who they are.

If Dale Jrs daddy was anybody else, he wouldn't have made a 1/4 of that. He was so highly over rated as an actual driver. This is what drove a lot of his endorsement deals that netted him so much. I was a huge NASCAR fan during that time.

 

[jakebake91]

But he made millions endorsing products. That's all a sponsorship is really.

Yes, but not from the team he played for. Which is what we are talking about. He wasn't good enough to compete at the highest level, therefore, had no place in baseball.