Maple Hill-not top ten...really ?

[tbird888]

No doubt. Currently rated 0.04 out of the top 10, by the consensus of those who bothered to review and rate courses. Hardly a slight.

Maple Hill's also a victim of two reviews that are clearly vendettas against the people running the course and not the course itself. Didn't Tim stand strong against not removing those reviews? Not sure why he was fine with protecting Beaver Ranch.

 

[Noill]

Which ones?

 

[tbird888]

The ones complaining about the increase in fees. They're the two lowest reviews for the course. There was a thread (or at least a discussion) about those reviews already.

 

[Stardoggy]

perhaps the perfect course to end the review drought.

For real. I'll get on it this weekend. There's a couple others from that trip I'd like to review, as well.

 

[Noill]

I found one and read it... I'm not sure how Tim sees it but it does read as legit to me... Having said that, the rating should have been higher as the reviewer even says it's a great course... so, not the same as the BR reviews even if just barely seeming legit.

 

[Noill]

The BR reviews that got deleted were unmistakably revenge, drive-by style reviews/ratings.

 

[MidwestZest]

I've never played MH, but thoughts that sprang to mind:

I think it's important to also remember that when a course began getting reviews on this site makes a difference. Some early courses got high ratings 10 years ago, because they were the best of the best. Now, after wear and tear or minimal updates, course design in general has advanced and they fall behind.

Similarly, some courses (especially older ones), grew into their current 4.5+ rating. So early reviews of 3.5 or 4.0 still exist for a course, because that's what they were at the time. Reviewers haven't been back to play again, and the reviews aren't updated.

These type of courses also compete with some in the top 25 that basically didn't open to the public until they were nearly perfectly in their 4.5-5.0 state. I think in the last 5 to 6 years we've seen more of this for other professionally designed and installed courses.

 

[tbird888]

The BR reviews that got deleted were unmistakably revenge, drive-by style reviews/ratings.

Compared to "It's a great course, but I had to pay more money than I was expecting so here's a 1 star rating"? Totally not a revenge rating...

At the end of the day, it's not my site, but you're really reaching if you think those ratings were intended to be any less malicious than the crybabies in CO.

 

[Noill]

I think it was a crybaby review... Definitely.

When you actually can delete reviews around here, it's best to do so with a real soft touch. I don't know, easy to go either way on that review... You get how deleting reviews is opening a can of worms? Deleting the BR reviews was a good call, I think we all agree.

 

[DavidSauls]

Not my call, but hard to argue that the 0.5 is a legitimate review. Surprised it survived.

One distinction in the Beaver Ranch vendettas was that it appeared to be an organized assault on the course's reputation, with multiple attack reviews. A little different than a couple of hits, among almost 100 glowing reviews.

It certainly doesn't affect the rating itself very much. Is anyone saying, "I'm not going to play that course because it's only 4.67. Now, if it were 4.74, I'd change my travel plans"? Or reading all those reviews and thinking, "Boy, all these people are nuts, but this guy who doesn't like the cost is right. I'm not playing there"?

It's only the obsession with the Top 10 list that makes it matter, at all. But it's never going to conform to everyone's tastes; there will always be some courses on it that something thinks shouldn't be, and vice versa.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I think they forced you to remove those BR reviews because they were calling the owner a prick/jerk/etc.

 

[Noill]

Yep, what happened with BR was obvious. This one MH review is bad, the reviewer should have understood their own rating rubric more... Knocking off several discs over a price to play doesn't look reasonable.

Then you see his only other review at 4.5 and have to wonder why his reviews swing so wildly. It doesn't resemble an honest rating system...or a mature and reasonable one for that matter.

 

[takman]

The title says it all. Why bother having a top ten ?

Arrogant......I honestly just clicked on the Top Courses link for the first time in about 8 years and haven't given it any objective credibility since the first Top 50 was listed whenever. Just another beauty pageant that can be ballot-stuffed and undercut by any jack-leg with a cpu.

 

[mrclc]

The title says it all. Why bother having a top ten ?

That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

[tbird888]

You get how deleting reviews is opening a can of worms?

I absolutely understand. You delete one review but not another, and there's inevitably someone who thinks you're playing favorites.

Deleting the BR reviews was a good call, I think we all agree.

I don't necessarily believe that. BR and MH are both top ten contenders. On both sides, the superficially low ratings severely hindered their chances of returning to the top ten. Why does one course get the help, but the other is essentially ignored. Why does MH not deserve the same consideration when a clearly malicious review (a "great course" gets a .5 disc review, and that's not malicious? Give me a break!) accomplished exactly what the reviewer intended? Coordinated group attack or not, both courses were attacked where it counts but only one was protected.

I believe Tim has made some questionable calls in the past, and I believe being aloof on MH but defending BR is one of those. Does it stop me from wanting to visit the site? No. Is it partially why I don't review courses anymore and haven't for years? Absolutely. Does my decision not to review impact anything? Absolutely not.

 

[Countchunkula]

Maple Hill is my personal #1 and the only course that I have currently rated as a 5. That said, others may have different tastes. I find I'm a happier person if I don't have any expectations of others agreeing with my opinions.

 

[Noill]

No, the removal of the BR reviews was correct. The MH review is just a bad review and that is allowed. The BR reviews were different. They weren't bad, they were malicious and came in succession. Not even comparable.

 

[timg]

The BR reviews weren't reviews, they were just people complaining about the owners of a course and nothing more. As far as the MH reviews, the person played the course, didn't care for certain aspects of it or whatever the case may be. I don't have a horse in this race and don't care which course is #1 or in the top 10 at all. I make a call based on the review only and not what sort of impact it'll have on the list or ranking.


So few reviews get removed from the site that if that's stopping you from sharing reviews on here then I don't know what to tell you. It takes a lot to convince me to remove a review and maybe I'm wrong or you disagree on occasion but I'd get just as much flack from the people that want a review to stay. If I didn't remove those BR "reviews" there would be a thread right now about that. I can't win

 

[Stardoggy]

Arrogant......I honestly just clicked on the Top Courses link for the first time in about 8 years and haven't given it any objective credibility since the first Top 50 was listed whenever. Just another beauty pageant that can be ballot-stuffed and undercut by any jack-leg with a cpu.

Great take that adds zero to the discussion. Nobody cares how cool you think you are.

"Oh, look at me, I don't do the thing you're all talking about, and I'm so much cooler because of it".

Pfftttt.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

A lot of people think that Led Zeppelin are the best rock band in history.
I happen to think that they are average musicians that figured out how to steal old blues tunes.

Opinions and all that.

I don't believe those two things are mutually exclusive.