No 10 Meter Circle

[JC17393]

These are good thoughts, but I would ask:

Do you think Top Pros would start to make this their putting style inside of 20'? Right now I think the jump putt is in use because it allows you to put more power behind a longer shot. Shorter shots don't need the extra power, and instead (like free-throws) rely more on being able to reproduce the movement.

What you are saying might affect the intermediate level players where a 2' difference is worth the risk, but do you think it'll drastically change the strategy of the best in our sport?

If it's strictly about power why do players jump at 10.1 meters? That tenth of a meter is a shade under 4 inches. The power gained by a jump seems like overkill to get an extra 4 inches of propulsion on the disc.

There are players for which the jump putt at least feels more accurate, whether empirical evidence backs them up or not. To the point where they'd rather be at 10.1 meters than 9.9 just so they can legally execute a jump putt (timing of release vs foot leaving the ground notwithstanding). Based on that, I could definitely see players preferring to jump putt almost everything outside of drop in range (say 5-7 feet).

Moreso as players develop their games in a world without a 10-meter circle. They may not bother to develop the skill/talent to make a stationary shot from 15-20 feet since there's no rule requiring them to do so.

Personally I'm rather agnostic about the 10-meter line. I'm fine with keeping it, I wouldn't be all that bothered if it went away. I also don't really feel like enforcement of the rule as written is all that difficult. It is only made to appear difficult by those that would prefer to see it changed or would rather not be bothered to make rules calls one way or the other.

 

[Rockwell]

As I pointed out before, it simplifies the rulebook but complicates the enforcement.

I very much see your point.

I just think that after an initial "break-in" period of people wondering why there is no 10m circle anymore, and a period of people "testing" how many inches they can gain by cheating on the jump (which they already do), then things would die down and players would wonder why there was ever a 10m circle in the first place.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

As I pointed out before, it simplifies the rulebook but complicates the enforcement.

I would also argue there is nothing simple about the current enforcement when you have people questioning things like maintain balance etc with no actual definition. Unless they are reviewing jump putts with video and so on im not sure this complicates enforcement anymore then the current circle circus we see today.

 

[Horsman]

A shot like that is already easier at 35', why not allow it at 28', or 14', or 4'?

Why are you trying to make the game easier. Isn't the point to make it harder.

 

[JC17393]

I would also argue there is nothing simple about the current enforcement when you have people questioning things like maintain balance etc with no actual definition. Unless they are reviewing jump putts with video and so on im not sure this complicates enforcement anymore then the current circle circus we see today.

I think we need to be careful not to take the frequent discussions about balance and the rules on forums like this as indicative of the overall effectiveness of the rules. There really isn't a enforcement issue plaguing the game outside of our teeny-tiny little minority of nitpickers on these forums.

There aren't frequent arguments or debates on the course. If there were, they'd have instigated change in the rules 20 years ago or 10 years ago or 5 years ago, because these rules have been more or less the same since the dawn of the rule book. If the rules as written were really that difficult to understand or enforce, they'd have changed by now, no? Other rules have changed over the years. But these haven't. I think that means something.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I think we need to be careful not to take the frequent discussions about balance and the rules on forums like this as indicative of the overall effectiveness of the rules. There really isn't a enforcement issue plaguing the game outside of our teeny-tiny little minority of nitpickers on these forums.

There aren't frequent arguments or debates on the course. If there were, they'd have instigated change in the rules 20 years ago or 10 years ago or 5 years ago, because these rules have been more or less the same since the dawn of the rule book. If the rules as written were really that difficult to understand or enforce, they'd have changed by now, no? Other rules have changed over the years. But these haven't. I think that means something.

true but the rules are not refined and allow for some ambiguity which cannot be accurately and 100% policed at a live pace of play.

 

[Horsman]

true but the rules are not refined and allow for some ambiguity which cannot be accurately and 100% policed at a live pace of play.

When talking about the 10m circle they can be 100% policed at a live pace of play

 

[Timeetyo]

My preference would be that the rule be changed to allow jumping in any direction where your last point of contact before releasing the throw still has to be on your 30cm mark and you have to release the throw before making contact again with the playing surface. I think that would add an athletic element to the game for some types of throws such as leaping sideways from behind a bush before throwing.

I would definitely support this.

As a new player looking at the rule as it is now it is just confusing and seems like an arbitrary rule that was created for a perceived problem.....at some point in time someone thought that others doing a jump put or walk through would give them an advantage they didn't want to give up - and came up with this absurd breakdown to preserve their vision of how the sport should be played.

This solution would be a nice, clean way to get rid of the silliness that is the circle and stance rules around it....and add some interesting plays in the case of hazardous lies that could be awesome to see. I mean - who wouldn't love to see instead of a stretched out straddle putt around a bush - we get someone leaping from the bush and putting before they land.

 

[JC17393]

true but the rules are not refined and allow for some ambiguity which cannot be accurately and 100% policed at a live pace of play.

I disagree that they can't be accurately and 100% policed at a live pace of play, only because they have been for decades now. That doesn't mean the language can't be tightened up here or there, but I don't think there's anything that needs to be significantly changed in the framework of the rule.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Wait, why does jumping make me more accurate? as far as I can tell in my intensive study of my own putting style, the less movement the better, introducing the "jump" may increase range, and thus accuracy at a longer range, but adding more moving parts at even 35' increases variability and decreases accuracy. If someone wants to flail around and attempt a diving jumper at 12', more power to them, I'll just laugh at them when they miss...

 

[iacas]

I am in favor of eliminating the 10 meter circle.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Halcón]

I could go either way. Leave the circle, or remove it. It wouldn't affect my game in the least.

 

[Timeetyo]

One thing it would help with is removing a (even if just perceived) barrier into league / tourney players for new players. One less confusing rule to worry about breaking in that 1st tourney / league game.

 

[phimdel]

Seeing as no course by me has a circle, any indication of a circle, or room enough (trees!) for a marked circle, I say get rid of it! Its ridiculous and only true enthusiasts of the sport even know it exists! My friends and I spend far to much time debating where the 'line' is and even more time discussing if balance was shown. The rules are outdated, non enforced (the 'circle), and vague left entirely up to interpretation. If you want the sport to grow you have to simplify. I say get rid of the circle AND jump puts. Simply state that whenever a person is throwing, be it driving, putting, etc, they must keep one foot or knee in constant contact with the ground.

 

[JoakimBL]

The closer you get to the basket, the more advantage there is to be had by leaving the ground, or following through a little too early. For a fairway shot, the advantage is negligible, at 10' it's huge.

So at 1" there is a HUGE advantage to be had by leaving the ground? I don't buy it. Actually I don't buy there is any advantage gain in accuracy, when distance is not a concern. Most decent players don't have problems with distance inside 30', but newer players might. That doesn't change the game in any way though. As a rule, the 10 m. circle makes no sense. It only complicates the rules, with no benefit. So what if some players do deadfall putts inside 8'? If you feel it adds an advantage, you could too. And if people injure themselves by being stupid, then that is their problem. At least outside the US. But I'm not sure your f'ed up legal system should dictate the rules of our sport.

 

[biscoe]

Wait, why does jumping make me more accurate? as far as I can tell in my intensive study of my own putting style, the less movement the better, introducing the "jump" may increase range, and thus accuracy at a longer range, but adding more moving parts at even 35' increases variability and decreases accuracy.

this.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Keep one foot planted at all times, except off the tee. Problem solved.

New equipment now allows discs to be thrown further than ever. This would also help remove foot faults.

Let the 870 rated players moan and groan that they cant perform a full run up on a 200 foot shot with a stilleto anymore.

Or just remove the 10m rule altogether. It doesnt fix a problem. I get it, you wanted to make putting harder, then why not make fairway shots harder to? Guess,we should just keep those easy...

 

[bradharris]

Keep one foot planted at all times, except off the tee. Problem solved.

New equipment now allows discs to be thrown further than ever. This would also help remove foot faults.

Let the 870 rated players moan and groan that they cant perform a full run up on a 200 foot shot with a stilleto anymore.

Or just remove the 10m rule altogether. It doesnt fix a problem. I get it, you wanted to make putting harder, then why not make fairway shots harder to? Guess,we should just keep those easy...

I can't tell what you're advocating for. It looks like you're a proponent of true stand-and-deliver with no run-up. That has nothing to do with the 10m circle. The circle is all about follow through after the throw.

 

[WhiteyBear]

I can't tell what you're advocating for. It looks like you're a proponent of true stand-and-deliver with no run-up. That has nothing to do with the 10m circle. The circle is all about follow through after the throw.

Fix it, one way or another. Either embrace it for every shot (no falling, except tee shots), or remove all together.

Bad putters will still be bad putters. The advantage goes to those who can drive well, and lay up well.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

When talking about the 10m circle they can be 100% policed at a live pace of play

So you are saying a foot fault has never happened inside the circle? and players call it every single time? no confusion across masses of players or courses etc? ....... come on'