[Other] NSH Customs - 3D Printed, PDGA approved

[dehaas]

So I guess the concern is, from a competition standpoint…

A traditional injection molded disc has the cost of injection molding equipment as the barrier of entry. Lower end 3D printers are relatively expensive. What is to prevent somebody from reverse engineering one of the pdga approved molds, making some tweaks to it, and passing it off as an approved model?

It's cool that people are exploring alternative ways to manufacture. I could be mistaken, but I thought at one point jcass talked about 3D printing prototypes (gila maybe) before forking out money to have a mold cast. Elevation is using rubber, and there are rumors of Vibram getting back in the game.

The point is, it's pretty much impossible to have "counterfeit" discs using the injection molding process. It's simply not cost effective given production methods. That's a totally different story when people can manufacture their own discs at home though. Take an existing 3D printed approved model, stretch the rim width out a bit, change the design a hair to make it more or less stable…stuff like that.

I know it's an extreme example, but it won't take long before you'll see people tinkering with it at home. Or even better yet, people start recreating classic molds and eventually one knucklehead submits it for approval as their own mold.

 

[seedlings]

So I guess the concern is, from a competition standpoint…

A traditional injection molded disc has the cost of injection molding equipment as the barrier of entry. Lower end 3D printers are relatively expensive. What is to prevent somebody from reverse engineering one of the pdga approved molds, making some tweaks to it, and passing it off as an approved model?

It's cool that people are exploring alternative ways to manufacture. I could be mistaken, but I thought at one point jcass talked about 3D printing prototypes (gila maybe) before forking out money to have a mold cast. Elevation is using rubber, and there are rumors of Vibram getting back in the game.

The point is, it's pretty much impossible to have "counterfeit" discs using the injection molding process. It's simply not cost effective given production methods. That's a totally different story when people can manufacture their own discs at home though. Take an existing 3D printed approved model, stretch the rim width out a bit, change the design a hair to make it more or less stable…stuff like that.

I know it's an extreme example, but it won't take long before you'll see people tinkering with it at home. Or even better yet, people start recreating classic molds and eventually one knucklehead submits it for approval as their own mold.

3D printing has hard limits to angles. Printing a dome on top is impossible without also printing 'supports' across the entire disc that would need to be sanded off afterward. No disc manufacturer is at risk. Most wing shapes would be difficult. Overhangs are impossible without printed supports. Like, a disc could not be printed right-side-up. I do think something like the Mako with a rounded wing is possible, and a flat top.

 

[dehaas]

Honest question:

Flashing and the excess plastic at the injection point can be trimmed at the factory. Could an argument be made for any supports needed to print certain shapes or angles?

Aka it's excess plastic leftover from the production of the disc?

 

[seedlings]

Honest question:

Flashing and the excess plastic at the injection point can be trimmed at the factory. Could an argument be made for any supports needed to print certain shapes or angles?

Aka it's excess plastic leftover from the production of the disc?

In theory, yes. According to the NSH manufacturer, the material is difficult to remove even with an angle grinder.

 

[jakebake91]

In theory, yes. According to the NSH manufacturer, the material is difficult to remove even with an angle grinder.

That particular material, sure.

I don't have a fantastic depth of knowledge with 3d printing (im a subtractive guy, not an additive one!), however, is it somehow possible to print with different polymers in the same run? Soft/brittle material used as the "supports" while using the tougher material for the disc?

It seems even if this isn't currently possible, the possibility is looming. Additive manufacturing is growing at an absurd rate these days. Its the future of "making".

 

[John Hansen]

I met the owner of the company Jason Guararra on July 4th at my home course Emerald park in Mesa AZ. I was selling some plastic I pulled out of Fountain Hills, when he comes up to take a look. He then tells me he is making his own disc and that they are PDGA approved. When he shows me one I'm in disbelief. So he goes and gets a box full of disc and gives them to me, saying i can be his first distributor. He tells me they are some of the first ones he made and the ones he is selling have better resolution. I'm going to hang on to them for now. I asked if they where prototypes but he said no just some of the first ones for sale.

 

[seedlings]

I met the owner of the company Jason Guararra on July 4th at my home course Emerald park in Mesa AZ. I was selling some plastic I pulled out of Fountain Hills, when he comes up to take a look. He then tells me he is making his own disc and that they are PDGA approved. When he shows me one I'm in disbelief. So he goes and gets a box full of disc and gives them to me, saying i can be his first distributor. He tells me they are some of the first ones he made and the ones he is selling have better resolution. I'm going to hang on to them for now. I asked if they where prototypes but he said no just some of the first ones for sale.

Fantastic and generous story! Have you thrown them all? I hope you can throw each style and report back with flight comparisons with known discs? Specifically those labeled understable like the Teleporter and Swede.

Amazing.

 

[John Hansen]

Fantastic and generous story! Have you thrown them all? I hope you can throw each style and report back with flight comparisons with known discs? Specifically those labeled understable like the Teleporter and Swede.

Amazing.

I have not thrown any of them, and I don't plan on throwing them. Sorry.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

I have not thrown any of them, and I don't plan on throwing them. Sorry.

helpful!

 

[seedlings]

I have not thrown any of them, and I don't plan on throwing them. Sorry.

Why not? That's why they were made!

 

[John Hansen]

Why not? That's why they were made!

I want to be able to say the are new, for when I decide to sell. I have thrown a mini and it was flippy.

 

[Ahildy13]

That particular material, sure.

I don't have a fantastic depth of knowledge with 3d printing (im a subtractive guy, not an additive one!), however, is it somehow possible to print with different polymers in the same run? Soft/brittle material used as the "supports" while using the tougher material for the disc?

It seems even if this isn't currently possible, the possibility is looming. Additive manufacturing is growing at an absurd rate these days. Its the future of "making".

Back when I was in my intro design class (12 years ago) there was a filament that was designed to be support structure only, and came with a solvent to dissolve away the support while keeping the rest of the structure. I have no idea if it worked well, but it did exist.

 

[ThrowBot]

3D printing has hard limits to angles. Printing a dome on top is impossible without also printing 'supports' across the entire disc that would need to be sanded off afterward.

Is it possible to print onto a curved surface?

Like, if you had a shallow concave surface to print onto, that would create a mild dome when you pull the printed disc out and flip it over.

The surface that you print onto is effectively the "top mold piece," as it creates the geometry of the top surface of the disc.

 

[BuzzzChief]

It depends on the printing technology but generally yes, printing a dome should not be a problem. Almost all 3D printing technologies use some kind of support medium. You're not limited to designs that support themselves during the printing process, that would seriously limit what you can print.

The printer I use most often is a polyjet. It goes layer-by-layer and prints a combination of actual resin and support material. In the end you've got a rigid part supported by a firm jelly-like substance. You use a pressure-washing tank and solvent to get the support material off. The main problem with a dome shape would be the strength of overlapping layers in that shape. I think it would be really weak. Of course there are many more printing technologies available now.

 

[seedlings]

It depends on the printing technology but generally yes, printing a dome should not be a problem. Almost all 3D printing technologies use some kind of support medium. You're not limited to designs that support themselves during the printing process, that would seriously limit what you can print.

The printer I use most often is a polyjet. It goes layer-by-layer and prints a combination of actual resin and support material. In the end you've got a rigid part supported by a firm jelly-like substance. You use a pressure-washing tank and solvent to get the support material off. The main problem with a dome shape would be the strength of overlapping layers in that shape. I think it would be really weak. Of course there are many more printing technologies available now.

Awesome! I only have an Ender3, and very limited experience. What you're doing is waaay out of my league.

 

[TAFL]

My Teleporter just arrived. The plastic is quite flexible, soft and grippy. The slight texture from the process helps with the grip.

The rim width is that of a fairway driver and the wing resembles many other fairways. It is FAF.

I have yet to throw it to guess at ratings. Perhaps tomorrow.

 

[seedlings]

My Teleporter just arrived. The plastic is quite flexible, soft and grippy. The slight texture from the process helps with the grip.

The rim width is that of a fairway driver and the wing resembles many other fairways. It is FAF.

I have yet to throw it to guess at ratings. Perhaps tomorrow.

:clap:

Awesome! Don't forget to post back!

 

[seedlings]

My Teleporter just arrived. The plastic is quite flexible, soft and grippy. The slight texture from the process helps with the grip.

The rim width is that of a fairway driver and the wing resembles many other fairways. It is FAF.

I have yet to throw it to guess at ratings. Perhaps tomorrow.

Hey - we need a report :thmbup::thmbup::thmbup:

 

[TAFL]

Sorry about the delay, folks.

My Teleporter was a bit warped when it arrived. I placed it under weight for several days to straighten it out, so I wasn't able to take it out to throw right away.

Anyway, I've since taken it out to the course. I took a bag of all new plastic--some molds that I'm familiar with that I bought new discs to have backups, plus some new molds I hadn't thrown, the Teleporter being one of those. I figured I could register how the new molds flew compared to discs I know.

The NSH website claims the Teleporter is understable at high speed. That's certainly not my experience. The first couple of throws, I tried to hyzerflip it up to flat and see how straight I could get it to carry. I couldn't get it to flip to flat and hold a line--it would start to flip and then start to fade without any carry. OK, then I figured I'd just put it out flat and see how far it would carry before fading. Started fading early and faded hard.

Going into it, I compared the wing to molds I throw regularly and figured it'd likely rate a -1 on HSS and perhaps a 2 on fade. Now, I reckon it's 0/2 or 0/3.

I let my son throw it a few times. He loves to throw stable and overstable discs on flex lines and he loved it. He could flex it hard and it still faded solidly. While NSH claims the mold is an understable flyer, the one I bought is certainly not.

 

[seedlings]

Sorry about the delay, folks.

My Teleporter was a bit warped when it arrived. I placed it under weight for several days to straighten it out, so I wasn't able to take it out to throw right away.

Anyway, I've since taken it out to the course. I took a bag of all new plastic--some molds that I'm familiar with that I bought new discs to have backups, plus some new molds I hadn't thrown, the Teleporter being one of those. I figured I could register how the new molds flew compared to discs I know.

The NSH website claims the Teleporter is understable at high speed. That's certainly not my experience. The first couple of throws, I tried to hyzerflip it up to flat and see how straight I could get it to carry. I couldn't get it to flip to flat and hold a line--it would start to flip and then start to fade without any carry. OK, then I figured I'd just put it out flat and see how far it would carry before fading. Started fading early and faded hard.

Going into it, I compared the wing to molds I throw regularly and figured it'd likely rate a -1 on HSS and perhaps a 2 on fade. Now, I reckon it's 0/2 or 0/3.

I let my son throw it a few times. He loves to throw stable and overstable discs on flex lines and he loved it. He could flex it hard and it still faded solidly. While NSH claims the mold is an understable flyer, the one I bought is certainly not.

Nice write up - thanks for the review. The owner claimed they are nearly indestructible, so not likely to break in.