PDGA Division Changes for 2023 Announced

[jenb]

Additional age protected divisions, changes to ratings caps for pros playing am, and amateur division name changes.

https://www.pdga.com/announcements/2023-divisional-realignment

 

[DavidSauls]

It's about time.

 

[elmexdela]

opcorn:

 

[oddjob]

"Introduce FP75, FP80, MA75, MA80, FA75, and FA80"

****ing lol

 

[txmxer]

? The MA40 ratings cap is 920. Does that only apply to players that are registered as pro? A 45 yr old Am rated 950 can play ma40?

 

[jeverett]

? The MA40 ratings cap is 920. Does that only apply to players that are registered as pro? A 45 yr old Am rated 950 can play ma40?

Yes, they didn't change the actual requirements for playing in Amateur divisions as a registered Amateur, just the requirements for still being able to play in Amateur divisions if the player is registered as a Professional.

 

[Wayne Mags]

Yes, they didn't change the actual requirements for playing in Amateur divisions as a registered Amateur, just the requirements for still being able to play in Amateur divisions if the player is registered as a Professional.

I hope this is not a dumb question but I have to ask. Why would a registered professional want to play in an amateur division in the first place?

 

[Moose33]

I hope this is not a dumb question but I have to ask. Why would a registered professional want to play in an amateur division in the first place?

The only thing I can think of is around here there are some big am only events, but you can play in them if you are under 970. A bunch of fringe pro guys play those.

 

[Wayne Mags]

Just my opinion but I feel like that if you declare yourself pro then you forfeit the right to play am.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Probably been discussed before, but maybe they should just raise the threshold to become 'pro'. I can't imagine someone at a 950 or so level is earning much more than entry fees playing in pro divisions. Could rules be tweaked to at least cancel out the entry fee for some am events without that being considered a 'cash' winning?

 

[Improbably]

Probably been discussed before, but maybe they should just raise the threshold to become 'pro'. I can't imagine someone at a 950 or so level is earning much more than entry fees playing in pro divisions. Could rules be tweaked to at least cancel out the entry fee for some am events without that being considered a 'cash' winning?

I always like this idea in theory, although it would greatly undercut the proceeds generated from the AM field. I wouldn't be sad about the few for-profit TDs that suffer but it's likely to severely limit fundraising.

 

[txmxer]

Even thoughArmstrong is a known cheat, people still acknowledge that he worked incredibly hard to be the best cyclist in the world for a time.

 

[da Crippler]

"Introduce FP75, FP80, MA75, MA80, FA75, and FA80"

****ing lol

What's so funny?

 

[jenb]

I hope this is not a dumb question but I have to ask. Why would a registered professional want to play in an amateur division in the first place?

Norms vary by region. There are some areas, for example, where lower rated ladies register as pro and play pro when there are enough players to support a division, and otherwise play am. Some TDs enforce the rule requiring a minimum number of players to support a division so they don't have to produce a bunch of trophies for one player divisions and/or because they think tournaments are supposed to be about competitions, not cake walks. They are only allowed to play am at b and c tier events though.

 

[DavidSauls]

I hope this is not a dumb question but I have to ask. Why would a registered professional want to play in an amateur division in the first place?

Once upon a time, that was the rule.

It gave rise to a phrase, "Move up, move up, move out". Which applied to players who went pro prematurely, but were never really that good and plateaued at the bottom of the pro ranks. So they were left with a choice -- keep finishing at the bottom and never win anything....or quit. They'd quit.

The words "pro" and "am" are overblown. McBeth is a pro. The 960-rated local who occasionally plays hot enough to win his entry fee back, isn't. So for the same reason we allow amateurs who play an event above their rating to later play their correct division, we allow players who've cashed in pro to play am in subsequent events. With restrictions -- we don't allow top-rated pros to dive back into am, and we don't allow any pros to compete in Am Worlds.

 

[davetherocketguy]

.

The words "pro" and "am" are overblown. McBeth is a pro. The 960-rated local who occasionally plays hot enough to win his entry fee back, isn't.

Could not agree more.

I'll also add on this topic...This is one of my pet-peeves with the PDGA. As a TD about 10% of my complaints come from those in the AM ranks. 90% comes from those in the "pro" ranks where 90%+ of my tourneys are AM players and about 10% or less are "pros." So you could say the signal to noise ratio is stupid high for the pros. Why does this happen? I believe the concept of "pro" the way the PDGA does breeds a culture of "what's in it for me?" mentality along with other unpleasant things they force TD's to do.

Which is one of several reasons why I refuse to run any more PDGA events.

On a related topic...While I realize this is not entirely the fault of the PDGA but when are they going to pull their heads out their a$$es an remove the M designation in the am divisions? I have had to explain to MANY people that there is no mens division. The M means mixed. I mean, I get it that people need to be smarter than that but FFS so does the PDGA. Call it AM1, AM2 or A1, A2...whatever.

 

[krupicka]

For years I've said, "It's spelled MA1, but is pronounced Am1"

 

[jenb]

Could not agree more.

I'll also add on this topic...This is one of my pet-peeves with the PDGA. As a TD about 10% of my complaints come from those in the AM ranks. 90% comes from those in the "pro" ranks where 90%+ of my tourneys are AM players and about 10% or less are "pros." So you could say the signal to noise ratio is stupid high for the pros. Why does this happen? I believe the concept of "pro" the way the PDGA does breeds a culture of "what's in it for me?" mentality along with other unpleasant things they force TD's to do.

Which is one of several reasons why I refuse to run any more PDGA events.

On a related topic...While I realize this is not entirely the fault of the PDGA but when are they going to pull their heads out their a$$es an remove the M designation in the am divisions? I have had to explain to MANY people that there is no mens division. The M means mixed. I mean, I get it that people need to be smarter than that but FFS so does the PDGA. Call it AM1, AM2 or A1, A2...whatever.

According to the chart in the OP, they just changed it to "Mixed Amateur." And I'm wondering if that's a move trying to head off legal issues arising in the wake of upcoming rule changes regarding eligibility to play women's divisions.

 

[davetherocketguy]

According to the chart in the OP, they just changed it to "Mixed Amateur." And I'm wondering if that's a move trying to head off legal issues arising in the wake of upcoming rule changes regarding eligibility to play women's divisions.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Hasn't the M in the MA and MP divisions always stood for mixed?

 

[jenb]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Hasn't the M in the MA and MP divisions always stood for mixed?

Here are the current division names. The amateur class name was "amateur mixed" but now they are reversing the order of those words so they match the MA part of the division code, and putting the words in the division name explicitly.