Please make me throw more better

[Sad2980]

I've been trying to break the throw down into a sequence of events that I can focus on when I practice. So far, the steps I've come up with are:

Step 1. Grip the disc by pinching the flight plate between the index finger and thumb
- if I'm not mistaken, pinching the disc allows it to rotate out of the hand at the end of the throw and imparts more spin on the disc

Step 2. Reach back and step the front foot forward offset and perpendicular to the target
- I think the purpose of stepping the front foot offset and perpendicular is to engage the hips
- I've been trying to reach away from my body to prevent rounding

Step 3. Rotate the hips forward and shift weight to the front foot without moving the arm
- if done correctly, it seems that rotating the hips brings the disc into the power pocket/hit
- I think this step may also be where the lag occurs. I'm no ball golfer, but I've been trying to lead with my hips to create a lag with my arm which I've read is part of a good ball golf swing.

Step 4. Pull the disc through the power pocket/hit by leading with the elbow
- I'm not sure if this is correct, but it seems to prevent my shoulders from rotating early. I am concerned that it may be causing me to strongarm my throws.

Step 5. Rotate the shoulders through and pivot on the front foot, keeping the arm on a constant arc
- basically following through. I think this engages the back and shoulder muscles and prevents injury.
- the constant arc prevents wrist roll and oat and maintains angle integrity

What do you guys think about this conceptualization of the disc golf throw? I'm sure that I have some parts of the throw incorrect and I've simplified/missed a lot of the nuances, but I'm hoping that this will help me focus on the important parts of a disc golf throw with the goal of refining the technique as I advance. Is this a good approach?

I posted this before I was able to read slowplastic and sw22's replies. It seems that breaking the throw down into steps might be messing up my timing. I think that some of the concepts are right, but some of them need to happen more simultaneously and some are just wrong. Still interested to hear what you think about the breakdown.

 

[Sad2980]

I doubt you have fixed your weightshift issue, your weightshift needs to lead the swing sequence forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW-vWZgnNSk#t=2m30s

Also see Door Frame Drills, One Leg Drill, Crush the Can...
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

Thanks. I've made a YouTube playlist of most of your drills. I intend to do them but always get carried away with reading about form. Lol Winter will be here soon (Alaska), and I'm planning to do them throughout the offseason.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to preset your booty/butt targetward and turn your whole body/feet further back and lead with your stride with your butt, instead of your front foot leading your stride with head back leaning/tipping behind rear foot. Must turn back with head inside foot/upright posture. You are hugging yourself with your upper arm collapsed back against your chest because you aren't turning your body back enough.

Need to shift forward before you can turn. The hips are basically automatic when releasing hand from door frame drill as weight shifts to front heel and sling shots everything forward like bow and arrow.

 

[Sad2980]

You need to preset your booty/butt targetward and turn your whole body/feet further back and lead with your stride with your butt, instead of your front foot leading your stride with head back leaning/tipping behind rear foot. Must turn back with head inside foot/upright posture. You are hugging yourself with your upper arm collapsed back against your chest because you aren't turning your body back enough.

Need to shift forward before you can turn. The hips are basically automatic when releasing hand from door frame drill as weight shifts to front heel and sling shots everything forward like bow and arrow.

This morning I concentrated on leading the stride with my butt and immediately saw results. My throws were going about 50 ft. Further than they have been. Thanks for the great advice. I'm going to keep working on this, but there is something I still don't understand. I see a lot of pros throwing with a very wide stance, but I noticed that my wide stance is preventing me from getting all of my weight onto my front leg before I throw. In some of your videos you recommend a shoulder width stance. Is the wide stance used simply because of the large amount of momentum they have going forward and is it something I should work up to, I.e should I use a shoulder width stance until I am throwing more accurately and using greater momentum?

 

[slowplastic]

The momentum makes a difference, and also look at where their knees and femur angles are at. Even if their feet are far apart their front knee is likely not that far in front of the hip. If you don't know where your balance should be at the plant and take too long of a stride, you likely won't make it all the way onto your front leg and you'll get jammed up instead of being able to throw from on top of the leg in balance.

 

[sidewinder22]

In some of your videos you recommend a shoulder width stance. Is the wide stance used simply because of the large amount of momentum they have going forward and is it something I should work up to, I.e should I use a shoulder width stance until I am throwing more accurately and using greater momentum?

I'm mostly talking about setting up the start position - before you have taken a pre-swing or backswing from about shoulder width stance or slightly wider, a stance that gives you good base for quick shift of center balance/weight for athletic motion and allows your hips range of motion.

Your width of stance during the throw will vary according to your forward momentum to maintain dynamic upright balance/posture to your swing. I do recommend a small compact shift, in some of my drills there is no stride of the foot, meanwhile your center may move a few inches and create compression. Compact shift happens more sudden over short distance and generates quick efficient acceleration = effortless distance. Force dissipates over distance so it is harder to acceleration fast in wide stance, or you have to maintain force generation much longer = more effort.

The wider your stance and more you crouch, the slower you will rotate, so just like figure skater, the closer the feet/upright/skinny, the faster they rotate. Some of the longest throwers have rather narrow stance. Wider stance in general will give you more leverage/stability and accuracy.

 

[Sad2980]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zdfNK0C4w

I've been practicing hershyzer drills and the door frame drill and doing field work a couple days a week. During field work I've been focused on my backswing and leading the downswing with my butt. I think I'm still making the same mistakes, but hoping that I'm rotating my upper body more during the backswing and beginning to lead the downswing with my butt. How does this most recent video look?

Some things I think I've noticed are that I'm either reaching back too high or pulling through too low. I think this is causing me to dip the disc in the downswing. It also looks to me like my timing is horrible. I am still strong arming because I pull through too early. I'm not getting my weight onto my front foot until I've already pulled the disc through. I've also noticed that I'm swinging my off arm around too much instead of keeping it close to my body.

When I practice the hershyzer and door frame drills, I can feel the weight shifting from my inner back foot to my front foot, but when I try this during a full throw, it feels like my balance is way off. Is this because I'm doing something incorrectly, either during the drills or during my throw? I also feel like leading with my butt is causing my shoulders to drop which may be why my balance is off during the throw. Is this possibly because I'm trying to shift my butt too much?

I haven't had any significant distance gains. Probably maxing out at 220-250 ft. inconsistently, but I feel like I'm getting on the right track. Thanks for all of the help so far.

 

[slowplastic]

Your balance is between your feet the whole time I think, rather than rear foot for backswing and transitioning to front leg for the forward swing. Also you're putting a lot of focus to getting a long backswing or "reachback"...I hate that term. But you're doing a reachback and I would really recommend against it. I saw great improvement when I was backswinging only as much as NEEDED for the shot/power, not as much as possible.

In other swinging sports like golf or baseball you're focused on the contact point, so think of it that way. Feel where the disc will swing out from your arm and hand in front of your body, then backswing from that point and at the top of the backswing shift forward to begin the forward swing, it should feel flowing. As you move forward think about that hit point that you'll swing the disc through, and power the disc through that zone as you approach it. Don't pull with the arm from the top of the backswing, use the shift to your front leg to move your body and disc forward and then as you're approaching that hit point you can swing the arm and disc through it.

Another thing is you are leading everything with your head/upper body...you look away and then push the disc away. Then you look forward as you drag the upper body and arm forward. The head should be balanced on the spine. Move your lower spine/butt/navel and if your spine is balanced upright above that, everything else will move too. This is moving your weight and working from the ground up, rather than pushing the shoulders and torso first as you are now.

 

[Sad2980]

Thanks slowplastic. I think I've gotten into my head too much and am focused on all of the individual aspects of the throw instead of throwing smoothly with all of the components flowing. I'll try to practice more fluidly and analyze the video afterwards instead of concentrating on different focus points. I have a tendency to overthink things, and I've definitely been doing that recently with disc golf. :wall:

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah you are never balanced/shifted on to the front leg or rear leg. You are just spinning without shifting.

One Leg Drill should feel very weird to you swinging standing up balanced on the front leg.


After you do ^ mirror on rear leg, wind up backswing slow like pitcher standing balanced on back leg.

 

[Sad2980]

These are videos of me practicing the Door Frame and One leg drills. There's also a video of me going through some dry throws. I'm planning to do drills throughout the winter months and was hoping you guys could let me know if I'm doing them correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqYsimS9NV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC4k3HHgEoY

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIHXDmhtY1o

Recently, I've been trying to make my throws more fluid and focusing on getting my weight onto my front foot before I begin pulling the disc. I've been doing this by making sure that my back foot leaves the ground before I start moving my arm forward, but I think I'm still missing something in the timing.

It also looks like I'm still reaching back too much, and I'm still not very fluid in the backswing. I've been trying to stop leaning/reaching back whenever I notice myself doing it.

I also think I need to lead with my butt more. How exaggerated should the shift with my rear be? I've been wondering if I'm trying to shift too much, causing me to dip my shoulders in order to keep my balance.

Thanks again for all of the help. Although I'm still not throwing much further, my throws have become much more consistent, and I'm not turning over discs or seeing a lot of wobble anymore. I've been mostly doing field practice and playing rounds with a Stingray, which was the most understable mid I could find.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to flex your rear knee and drive off your instep. You are extending your rear knee and pushing/tipping yourself over your front leg. Lower your hand position in door frame drill and drop more into it.

Your rear foot is positioned in the way in one leg drill and tipping your balance over the front leg. So your rear foot is too close to the left teepad, need to move it over toward the right teepad behind your front foot - out of the way with flexed rear knee.

This should help feeling upright on the front leg instead of going over it, and leveraging off the rear instep with flexed knee.

 

[Sad2980]

It's been a long time, but I'm back for some advice from everyone here at DGCR. I've been working on my form on and off over the last few years, but not with much consistency. This summer I've started to understand some of the concepts of the kinematic chain and have been studying a lot more of the videos listed by the form gurus here on the site. I'm hoping you guys might take a look at my form and let me know if I'm headed in the right direction/what to work on.

Lately I've been able to hit around 275 consistently in the field with an absolute max of around 300 ft. On the course I'm probably maxing out around 250 ft. I've been trying to focus on staying loose and using the hips to power the throw. I've also been trying to swing wider in my backswing, bring the disc into my chest, and grip as late as possible. I think my biggest problems at the moment are: rounding, nose angle, angle consistency, and weight transfer. I also still have a real problem with strong arming and pulling through too soon, although I've been getting better at staying loose and swinging the arm.

Linked below are two views of my backhand and one video of my forehand. Each throw went around 250-300 with a Discraft ESP Stalker. Thanks in advance for the advice. I've learned a ton from this community.

 

[Sad2980]

Hi everyone,

I've continued working on my form over the last year and I'm back for more help. After watching some of Brychanus' YouTube videos and lurking in the forums, I've started to revisit the pendulum swing and weight shift from behind.

I think I'm happy to report that the throw is feeling different. When things go well it feels smoother, more compact, and more powerful; however, distance gains have been minimal - still maxing out in the 250 range on the course.

I'm hoping someone can let me know if I'm on the right track and give me some advice for what to focus on.

 

[Brychanus]

WB!

I like some of the action, but I see a bit of a lack of tilt in the upper body in the backswing, and I think you could get better braced up in both directions. I kinda want to see what happens when your legs move more to test a hunch. So:

1. Tilt a little more in the shoulders into the backswing.
2. Show one throw striding forward into the plant.
3. Show one throw doing seabas22 Reverse Stride starting as low and wide as possible.

 

[Sad2980]

Thanks for the input,

I'm going to work through these drills some more off camera, but wanted to post something ASAP to make sure I'm doing them correctly. Each one made the swing feel more powerful, although my balance and posture probably leave something to be desired.

I'll keep working on the shoulder tilt in the backswing. I was originally having trouble leaning too far back and pulling with the arm. It seems I may have over corrected.

I've been trying to figure out how to brace for years and I'm not sure I'm any closer to doing it correctly. Lately I've been trying to focus on the weight shift from behind to achieve better bracing. The change in shift has made the swing feel smoother, but I don't think I have been doing it correctly. For some reason, I have started having knee pain again, which had stopped when I was spinning out. Neither has led to increased distance. I have been wondering if I need to try pushing up during the forward swing to "rock the hips" and relieve strain on my knee, but doing so has been easier said than done.

1. Tilt a little more in the shoulders in the backswing


This made me feel as if I was pulling with my shoulders through the forward swing. Is this the correct feeling? I can see how this would add a lot of power, especially if balance, posture, and weight shift are correct.

2. Show one throw striding forward into the plant


I had some trouble syncing the backswing and the forward stride. I can also post a video of an x-step, but I've mostly been working on standstills after watching your "Spotting Common Mistakes" video.

3. Show one throw doing seabass22 Reverse Stride starting as low and wide as possible


After watching the video, I think I need to get down lower and wider. This felt more powerful and the stride seemed more connected. I must admit that I'm not sure why this works or what I'm looking for. My balance seemed better, but I'm not sure if I have the timing correct.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hershyzer - Need to start drill with your rear foot turned further back about 30 degrees and your right butt cheek should be facing target more, and bending the rear knee. Right knee should be slung back behind left knee or about even with each other.

Reverse stride - You never turn back far enough, and you starting turning open before your front foot plants. Note how your foot turns open so your heel spins further back away from target below, while my heel plants forward, not turning the foot and body stays turned back into plant.

 

[Sad2980]

Thanks sw22,

The pictures are really helpful.

I'll work on rotating the upper body more while staying balanced. Unfortunately opening my front foot too soon has been a chronic problem, but I'm wondering if rotating the shoulders and torso more in the backswing and shifting from behind might delay my foot opening up and solve both problems.

Looking forward to retrying these drills and posting some video soon.

 

[Sad2980]

I've been working on the advice from recent posts for a few days and wanted to check in on my progress. I have been focused on getting the shoulders turned more in the backswing and shifting my weight forward before starting the forward swing. I've also been trying to bend at the knees more. I've noticed an improvement in feeling the weight of the disc, but my balance is all over the place, so I've been trying to bend at the waist more as well.

This is a video of a few swings where I focused on everything mentioned above. To me, there is progress, but I'm wondering if I need to turn my shoulders further back and bend the knees and waste more to generate more energy from the lower body and keep everything on plane. I've also noticed a bad dip in my swing plane, and I'm having trouble keeping a loose, balanced, and dynamic swing while thinking of these changes, but I'm hoping that will improve with practice.

A few questions:

Do I need to turn my shoulders further back and bend my knees more during my backswing?

Should I need to bend at the waist to prevent standing up and turning the disc over or am I compensating for some flaw in my form?

Is there any advice for keeping a flatter swing plane or is it as simple as keeping my backswing lower so my arm doesn't need to correct at the hit?

Does it look like I'm improving in the areas previously mentioned?



I've also included a video of me swinging a kettle bell. I'm hoping that these swings might exaggerate what a correct disc golf swing feels like. Do these swings look decent?

 

[sidewinder22]

Kettlebell - your stance is open or inline, instead of staggered closed so your swing is moving outside-in or left-right instead of straight or inside-out. Toss it so it goes straight.

Throw - both your feet are spinning out. Your right foot spins clockwise as it plants instead of staying lateral. Your rear heel spins further away from target instead of moving closer to target. Need to shift pressure to front foot before you turn.