clard
Double Eagle Member
My arms and hands look like they were stolen from an underfed orangutan.
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Rebuilding CLard's throw
- Thread starter clard
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My arms and hands look like they were stolen from an underfed orangutan.
Agricolae
Eagle Member
Another vote of support and affirmation. I use the grip Clard shows and the roll-under mostly for Roc and putter drives. The increase in efficiency (stronger, more powerful with the same effort) is very noticeable. However ... I thought all you guys already knew this and I was the one (always) playing catch up!? Isn't the roll-under the same as what some refer to as "turning the key"? I get their (on a flat shot) from telegraphing a fairly extreme anhyser in my backswing. I *know* I've heard SW22 and others talk about that.
But yeah, the efficiency is definitely there from my experience. Will have to apply this more to drivers. I only need 100' to catch up with Clard's distance (but he needs 20-25 years to catch up with my age, I mean, *wisdom*.
)
But yeah, the efficiency is definitely there from my experience. Will have to apply this more to drivers. I only need 100' to catch up with Clard's distance (but he needs 20-25 years to catch up with my age, I mean, *wisdom*.
)
clard
Double Eagle Member
Another vote of support and affirmation. I use the grip Clard shows and the roll-under mostly for Roc and putter drives. The increase in efficiency (stronger, more powerful with the same effort) is very noticeable. However ... I thought all you guys already knew this and I was the one (always) playing catch up!? Isn't the roll-under the same as what some refer to as "turning the key"? I get their (on a flat shot) from telegraphing a fairly extreme anhyser in my backswing. I *know* I've heard SW22 and others talk about that.
But yeah, the efficiency is definitely there from my experience. Will have to apply this more to drivers. I only need 100' to catch up with Clard's distance (but he needs 20-25 years to catch up with my age, I mean, *wisdom*.
I think a number of people have said this in different ways and for whatever reason I never got it! I know sometimes when people talk about something in their technique thread it triggers something for me so I try to do the same when I figure something out. I'm always playing catch up!
I've definitely noticed an increase in efficiency and the added stability is pretty cool too. I keep overthrowing holes using the same "power" I used to but the disc just comes out faster.
Agricolae
Eagle Member
^^Re-reading my earlier post I see it might have come off as minimizing your breakthrough. That was not my intent at all! I am in fact STOKED to hear you guys mentioning something I've recently noticed and have been working with. I'll be interested to hear how this continues to work out for you. I don't often chime in on these threads as my current goal is 350' on demand and 400' max (not bad for Grand Masters and, when I get there, I'll bump it up further!.) Inch by inch with help from you all.
ShoopDaGoose
Newbie
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I REALLY want to see a side view video of this 'rolling-under' concept. From the video of myself naturally doing this has lead to numerous nose-up throws decreasing my distance potential. If anything, I've found success doing the opposite, but maybe that's only because I try not to 'roll-under' by keeping my wrist and disc at the same level/on the same plane as my forearm which helps my swing plane.
clard
Double Eagle Member
I didn't interpret it badly at all, but thank you for saying that! If you are hitting 350' as a GM then you are straight crushing. Well done!
Here's a slow mo shot that went about 430'-440'. I find that it only really produces big nose up when I am pulling through slowly, or I try to roll the wrist under too early. You have to try to roll the wrist under during the hit but when I have accidentally done it earlier I end up throwing nose up and throwing everything out of whack.
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You need to wipe your butt and stop swaying.
clard
Double Eagle Member
Yep, definitely been noticing that lately. Is that a balance issue?
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Balance/posture/pivot and stride direction.
ShoopDaGoose
Newbie
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Thanks for posting the video clard! Unfortunately, I still don't understand the 'rolling under' or 'pronation' you and SW22 are talking about. I can't see the specific movement/effort in clard's throw, and I can't see how SW22's bottle drill translates to throwing a disc. (SHOUT OUT to SW22 for all the amazing videos and replies he has posted). I can't manage to replicate or visualize a motion that makes sense with a disc in my hand.
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If you pronate your wrist at the end of the throw your thumb will push/leverage the disc much harder. BlakeT had a drill where you put a quarter on a desk/table and you try to fling the quarter with your thumb.
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Which isn't far removed from the motion of turning a key in a lock counter clockwise, and Sw's/Blakes water bottle drill does similar again.
Make the keyturn motion/pushing a quarter and then imagine a disc in your hand as it's pivoting around your grip point (the final motion of the hit where it gets to 4oclock in your grip)
That motion timed correctly will force the nose down (if the disc is still in contact with your palm and not broken away from the other lock fingers it will look like it is going to do the opposite and be nose up - which will also be the issue with this if the disc slips out early) and gives you greater grip through the hit + possibly giving some underroll OAT/Wobble increasing stability which will counter the natural understability from the increased nose down (possibly still not entirely sure on how/if this works!)
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Good way to practice the motion is thorwing spike hyzers with putters around a sharp corner at about 50 meters.
Focus on getting the nose down by rolling under whilst throwing high otherwise they'll stall on you rather than keeping the line to the ground
Edit - above posts are in response to Shoopdagoose not CLARD and SW.
Focus on getting the nose down by rolling under whilst throwing high otherwise they'll stall on you rather than keeping the line to the ground
Edit - above posts are in response to Shoopdagoose not CLARD and SW.
clard
Double Eagle Member
I have to admit that I don't understand how rolling the wrist under can produce more nose down...
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http://imgur.com/j6buRf3 just at the start of the pivot (disc has broken away from your palm and other lock fingers), if your hand is at 12 oclock the part of the disc at about 7/8 in this picture is going to be the nose, what happens when your thumb rolls under through this stage?
clard
Double Eagle Member
It seems like it should make it more nose up. I'm obviously not getting this, haha.
NathanNoodleArm
Eagle Member
But it's working for you even if you don't get it, right? I'm still working on it without much success. I told you I'm not ready yet. :wall:
clard
Double Eagle Member
Yes*
*Sometimes it doesn't, haha, and I get more nose up than usual. I am trying to understand how this can produce more nose down to figure out how to correct that. It seems to work for me when I am throwing hard, but when I power down I end up throwing nose up.
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Makes sense, you have to actively pull it through the pivot (this being the last last last stage of it all, good body positions have bought most of the disc edge round, then the last break from your palm and other fingers is the final pivot) which would indicate a hard throw, if you kind of pussy it and don't get the hit right, it will slip out early and go nose up. Look at the picture i snap shotted of you again, currently the disc is slightly nose down, it's still going to sling around your pinch point slightly more as you actively pull your thumb forward and under, the bit of the disc that is directly opposite your thumb will be the nose of the disc at release.
It's going to have to be waay nose down as long as you pull it all the way through - it will almost be on the angle of your arm at release.
Actually, have a look at it in Rowvid frame by frame, i've just had another look and you will see the disc coming out nose down on the angle of your arm - it unfortunately misses the frame of the final pull/push (finger pulling/thumb pushing) through the pivot though.
Put two rulers up on screen as you watch it, one on the line the disc is travelling and one on the angle of the disc, it's almost 45 degrees nose down to the angle of attack.
Interested to hear what SW has to say on it though as I could well be wrong - this is how I have thought about it for a couple of years now, - but that definitely does not mean it's right!
It's going to have to be waay nose down as long as you pull it all the way through - it will almost be on the angle of your arm at release.
Actually, have a look at it in Rowvid frame by frame, i've just had another look and you will see the disc coming out nose down on the angle of your arm - it unfortunately misses the frame of the final pull/push (finger pulling/thumb pushing) through the pivot though.
Put two rulers up on screen as you watch it, one on the line the disc is travelling and one on the angle of the disc, it's almost 45 degrees nose down to the angle of attack.
Interested to hear what SW has to say on it though as I could well be wrong - this is how I have thought about it for a couple of years now, - but that definitely does not mean it's right!
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
Because the disc is already ripping from your hand throwing hard so the thumb pushing down is the main contact point influencing disc angle from a grip standpoint. If you are powered down and possibly holding longer then the disc is rotating with your wrist some before it rips out. Fan grip might help?
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