Should we lower the rim width/speed regulations for distance drivers?

[lyleoross]

I completely disagree. One of the main differences between ball and disc golf is that ball golf focuses on where the ball lands, where disc golf focuses on where the disc flies. We rely on discs to navigate a fully 3 dimensional fairway, where we need to turn the disc left, right, up, down, and sometimes more than one way over the course of a single fairway. We need the varying disc stabilities because we have a more diverse array of shots.

The point of golf is to hit the ball the exact same way every time with the club that goes the correct distance. The point of disc golf is to throw in the specific way with the specific disc needed to navigate a fairway.

This is true, but I've seen to many "good" players reduce the need of left, right, center to I'm gonna throw like this and get that out come to think it's a huge problem.

I suspect there are discs that go out during tournaments that simply act to keep the bag warm.

 

[Muddyboots]

Many of the media folks dispute your first point. They prefer to film in the woods. Sure the sight lines aren't as great, but given the limited options on a given hole, camera operators can more easily chose where to stand to have the best views to film from. In the open, the players can go in so many different directions, it's harder to a) choose a spot to get the best angle and b) track the disc out of the player's hand (speaking primarily from the perspective of catch cam).

While I'm not one who enjoys watching 500+ drives, at least not over and over again, I do agree with the idea that if you haven't played the course being filmed, you can sometimes struggle to grasp the challenge of it. But that applies to all courses, not just wooded ones. I enjoy watching USDGC more than I do the Memorial (two events that are described as open and "boring" by a lot of people) in part because I've played a couple dozen rounds at Winthrop and I've never been to Fountain Hills. I get more out of watching Idlewild or Maple Hill more than BSF or Masters Cup because I've played those wooded courses but never been to Milo or Dela, though I enjoy watching all of them more than I do something like the San Francisco or Utah Open.

I am not a media folk, but those who I have spoken to, Mcfly, TeeTime, and some others, commented on the difficulty of filming on wooded courses and those with elevation. Some courses (perhaps a minority) are being installed/designed with media access in mind. I suspect that either style of course has its' own challenge(s), if I am being honest. Geography (type of woods) may also enter into it.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I completely disagree. One of the main differences between ball and disc golf is that ball golf focuses on where the ball lands, where disc golf focuses on where the disc flies. We rely on discs to navigate a fully 3 dimensional fairway, where we need to turn the disc left, right, up, down, and sometimes more than one way over the course of a single fairway. We need the varying disc stabilities because we have a more diverse array of shots.

The point of golf is to hit the ball the exact same way every time with the club that goes the correct distance. The point of disc golf is to throw in the specific way with the specific disc needed to navigate a fairway.

Balls don't fly thru the air as well? You obviously have no idea about ball golf. The idea is not to hit the ball the exact same way every time. you have to turn it left and right, flight it up and down, get it to sit softly or release upon landing, reduce and increase spin to get it fly properly into and downwind, and you also have to factor in the lie. Ankle high grass is a bitch in ball golf, where it has almost zero effect in disc golf.

When you have a disc for every shot than you simply are making the same throw and letting the disc do all the work for you. Where's the skill in that, except for developing that one throw? To get a similar feel in disc golf as in ball golf, you would only be able to use a 0,0 disc and all turn, fade, height, glide would be all manufactured by the player. 14 discs is more than enough for any disc golfer. I think the multiple disc thing is actually a deterrent to get people involved in the sport. They show up at a club and get the feeling that to be an accepted player they need to own and carry a gazillion disc.

 

[SonicGuy]

Balls don't fly thru the air as well?

I mean, no. Not like a disc. Have you ever played disc golf? Or are you maybe from Texas or some other fake disc golf state without trees? Honestly I can't even imagine making the statements you made in your post. Sub 800 rated like your disc game.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Keep the speed and the baskets but limit each player to 14 discs.

I appreciate the idea of a limited selection but it would quickly become unrealistic when competing on courses that have a lot of water or fences.

 

[JC17393]

I've yet to hear a compelling argument for limiting the number of discs players can carry that isn't rooted in "ball golf does it". I mean, why else is 14 the number most commonly suggested? That's not a number arrived at easily when counting up types of discs needed in a given round.

If disc selection more closely resembled club selection, I could see the point. Ball golfers generally carry one putter, a selection of wedges and irons, and a couple woods/drivers. While manufacturers may vary, the general setup from bag to bag is fairly consistent. Maybe one guy eschews a 2-iron for an extra wood or a skips out on carrying a pitching wedge because his 9-iron fits the bill, but by and large you can guess what you'll find in any given bag of clubs at a tournament. No two disc bag setups are alike. One guy I golf with has two putters, one mid, and about 10 different driver molds (with a back up for one or two of them) no matter what the course. I carry seven putters (four molds), four mids, and between four and seven drivers depending on the course. What will a disc limit change about the way we each play that makes the game more compelling or more competitive?

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

I don't think you can really compare it to ball golf. Ball golfers may be limited club wise but they don't lose clubs and they aren't limited to the number of balls they can carry, as far as I know.

 

[ru4por]

Balls don't fly thru the air as well? You obviously have no idea about ball golf. The idea is not to hit the ball the exact same way every time. you have to turn it left and right, flight it up and down, get it to sit softly or release upon landing, reduce and increase spin to get it fly properly into and downwind, and you also have to factor in the lie. Ankle high grass is a bitch in ball golf, where it has almost zero effect in disc golf.

When you have a disc for every shot than you simply are making the same throw and letting the disc do all the work for you. Where's the skill in that, except for developing that one throw? To get a similar feel in disc golf as in ball golf, you would only be able to use a 0,0 disc and all turn, fade, height, glide would be all manufactured by the player. 14 discs is more than enough for any disc golfer. I think the multiple disc thing is actually a deterrent to get people involved in the sport. They show up at a club and get the feeling that to be an accepted player they need to own and carry a gazillion disc.

I play ball golf and flighting the ball up and down, getting it to sit or release can be club choice, not changes in the swing.

I disagree that variety in disc choices is deterring growth. I think this is antidotal at best, without any substantial evidence. I play plenty of leagues and tournaments, I have never found prejudging based on bag size, nor any players feeling unwanted due to minimalistic disc choices.

This is a solution to fix something that is not broken. Disc golf is not golf, and I do not want it to be. Making rules just to make it more like golf is an awful idea.

 

[roggenb3]

I don't think you can really compare it to ball golf. Ball golfers may be limited club wise but they don't lose clubs and they aren't limited to the number of balls they can carry, as far as I know.

True, but how often does someone lose multiple discs? Any pro should be able to handle losing 1 or 2 in a round without collapsing. And wouldn't that be interesting to watch? Adds a whole new risk to risk/reward holes. And adds real strategy when putting a bag together instead of just "bring everything".

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I've yet to hear a compelling argument for limiting the number of discs players can carry that isn't rooted in "ball golf does it". I mean, why else is 14 the number most commonly suggested? That's not a number arrived at easily when counting up types of discs needed in a given round.

If disc selection more closely resembled club selection, I could see the point. Ball golfers generally carry one putter, a selection of wedges and irons, and a couple woods/drivers. While manufacturers may vary, the general setup from bag to bag is fairly consistent. Maybe one guy eschews a 2-iron for an extra wood or a skips out on carrying a pitching wedge because his 9-iron fits the bill, but by and large you can guess what you'll find in any given bag of clubs at a tournament. No two disc bag setups are alike. One guy I golf with has two putters, one mid, and about 10 different driver molds (with a back up for one or two of them) no matter what the course. I carry seven putters (four molds), four mids, and between four and seven drivers depending on the course. What will a disc limit change about the way we each play that makes the game more compelling or more competitive?

Why does ball golf do it? To make players play with more skill and creativity. If you all of a sudden you had to cut down to 3 putters you would be forced to use more improvisation for your upshots. Golf clubs now are adjustable. You can literally change the flight characteristics of your driver with every swing. But that is illegal during a round so that the players with the most skill and ability to adapt to different conditions ends up at the top of leader board. not the player who is able to best adjust his clubs for each shot. Disc golf should be about much more than just swapping discs to generate one type of shot or another. Even with only 14 discs you should be able to come up with almost all needed throws. I use 14 discs because that is what my carry bag holds. I do think that is probably too many though. 10 would be a more meaningful #. Golfers have to choose which clubs they bring before every event, so should disc golfers.

 

[SonicGuy]

Please. Ball golfers have at least 9 irons in their bag because they cannot play with the "skill and creativity " needed to successfully range an iron. Most disc golfers exist with about 6 total distances covered, unlike the 14 ball golfers do.

 

[mstrjollo]

Why are we so afraid of being compared to "Ball Golf?" If Disc Golf were to be such a different sport than Golf, maybe we should consider changing the name. But until then, we should take what we can from the grandfather of our sport.
One thing I'd like to see happen is to have a similar handicap system or Golfers Index. The handicap system is unmatchable in Golf. The DGCR SSE is a nice comparison, but we need a formal Handicapping system so different skill levels can compete against each other without trying to make up rules. Ball Golf has that down to a science!
Next, yes, the pro's can throw 100x further than the average player (I'm exaggerating to make a point.) We don't need longer further course to compensate these players abilities, we just need Pro Tee boxes installed that require a much more technical throw... Or even begin to incorporate Pro Level Boundaries on certain holes... At the same time we need to create beginner through advanced tee pads as well to make the game as inclusive as possible.(this is being done on many levels but it should be considered for all new courses.) Once again, a handicap system could dictate who needs to follow the rules of certain hole restrictions, ob's and mando's.
I love a good Par 3 course, but It would be nice to see some Par 72's out there. But yes, grooming would require way more maintenance than the average volunteer does in your local Club.
Finally, I fight with the idea of having a limit to discs in the bag similar to that of Ball Golfers being limited to 14 clubs. There are arguments on both sides that make fair and valid points.
I find the reason you can't copy ball golf in this specific area between the two sports is because Ball Golfers never have the chance of losing a club but they can carry as many balls as they wish. Typically they carry 6 or 9 balls, but they could force their caddy to carry 100 if they didn't give a darn.
Disc Golfers losing discs is essentially like a golfer losing an entire club, not just a ball. A lost disc during a round already results in a penalty just like a lost ball. They don't penalize the golfer by making them toss the club away that lost the ball. Why penalize the disc golfer by not allowing them to replace the lost disc?
At the end of the day I say, "Leave it up to the course and tournament directors." Announce early on that there is a disc limit for all competitors. Make tournaments that have an 8 disc bag, 20 disc bag, 3 disc bag. I would love to see the Worlds best being reduced to the bare minimum now and again. But I also love seeing these guys rip whatever is in their bag 600+ feet!
It be cool to see a tournament where everyone was given the same exact discs... but that would mess with sponsors too much to ever happen.
Peace

 

[DanJon]

Balls don't fly thru the air as well? You obviously have no idea about ball golf. The idea is not to hit the ball the exact same way every time. you have to turn it left and right, flight it up and down, get it to sit softly or release upon landing, reduce and increase spin to get it fly properly into and downwind, and you also have to factor in the lie. Ankle high grass is a bitch in ball golf, where it has almost zero effect in disc golf.

When you have a disc for every shot than you simply are making the same throw and letting the disc do all the work for you. Where's the skill in that, except for developing that one throw? To get a similar feel in disc golf as in ball golf, you would only be able to use a 0,0 disc and all turn, fade, height, glide would be all manufactured by the player. 14 discs is more than enough for any disc golfer. I think the multiple disc thing is actually a deterrent to get people involved in the sport. They show up at a club and get the feeling that to be an accepted player they need to own and carry a gazillion disc.

I feel like maybe you haven't been playing disc golf for that long.

Developing one throw?

 

[DanJon]

If ball golfers have so much more skill, then they should only need 3 clubs.

One to putt

One to approach

One for off the tee

Otherwise they're just developing one shot per club when they carry 14.

Where's the skill in that?

 

[Casey 1988]

I feel like maybe you haven't been playing disc golf for that long.

Developing one throw?

I Think he means Some pro players that mostly use a backhand flex shot like Philo Brathewait and Michael Jhoanson that seem to 95% of the time do a flex shot with backhand only of different power and flex to them besides the putt styles they have.

 

[Lazerface]

I'm not really adding to this conversation, but I would love to see the top pros play some type of charity event with lids. Maybe include Sonic or Zephyer style discs. Put them on a 1980s style disc golf course with a bunch sub 300 foot holes in the woods. Get Climo/Barry/Russell out there. I would love that shiz. I bet a lot of folks would be surprised on how much touch these young guns actually have.

Also, have any of you ever thrown a super light weight putter? I live in St. Louis so we see a lot of one off Wizard runs and years ago a league director brought a bunch of sub 120 gram wizards out. I think we may have played a wacky format on our bi-week between sessions with them, but cant' recall. Anyway they are not paper plates. They actually have quite a bit of stability and you can shape all types of shots with them. They glide for days. I keep one in the bag for playing catch on back ups at league. They are easy on the hands given the light weight. Just an absolute blast for long distance catch.

Also, lowering the existing standards on rim width is a terrible idea.

 

[Nenja]

The biggest reason i see to limit disc speed would be to save the amateurs, if i have to nag one more beginner friend to stop bagging speed 12's because they consider them easier to get to 300' i'll just stop giving disc advice all together.

They will never ban wide rimmed discs, no matter what we agree on here.

 

[scarpfish]

Keep the speed and the baskets but limit each player to 14 discs.

Nope.

 

[robdeforge]

When you have a disc for every shot than you simply are making the same throw and letting the disc do all the work for you. Where's the skill in that, except for developing that one throw? To get a similar feel in disc golf as in ball golf, you would only be able to use a 0,0 disc and all turn, fade, height, glide would be all manufactured by the player. 14 discs is more than enough for any disc golfer. I think the multiple disc thing is actually a deterrent to get people involved in the sport. They show up at a club and get the feeling that to be an accepted player they need to own and carry a gazillion disc.

LOL

 

[wolfmandragon]

Why is it too late? This sport is still in relative infancy. People are still debating the design of targets, rules and par. I don't think it would hurt the market in any significant way as long as you provide ample advance notice. Speed eight, or whatever is set, would just become the new norm. The collectors would eat it up.

We may be beginning to see the limits of distance under the current regulations but you have to leave room for innovation yet unseen. I am confident that, at the least, there will be a significant improvement in consistency of flight and speed sensitivity.

I have no interest in getting political but you could compare this conversation to the argument that, when they wrote the second amendment they were thinking about muskets not missiles. Yes, this is different but right or wrong, they simply didn't understand where it might go. If it isn't written in stone should we act as if it is?

Arms do not mean guns...it means what soldiers are armed with. This is spmewhat over simplified, but has stood up in court.

Please do not bring up politics of gun control; it gets the thread disrupted.