Southern Nationals

[KYdischippy]

I've been looking at the Southern Nationals platform and really like what I see. I think I am going to forego renewing my PDGA membership and play in the Southern Nationals. My current reasons: No membership fee, points series to qualify for a championship, $2 from every entry is taken out and of that $2, $1.75 is returned to the division it was taken from for payouts at the championship, my membership fees (or lack there of) won't be funneled up to prop up a pro tour.
My question is, are there any Southern Nationals players here? If so what are your pros/cons?

 

[mashnut]

Southern Nationals isn't really a PDGA alternative. They don't try to influence the direction or growth of the sport, they don't regulate equipment and they don't provide things like event insurance. They're a bigger version of your local points series, which seems like a really cool thing to me. I just don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[turbosteve]

The obvious con of playing southern nationals for you would be that they are not close to Nashville. Some Southern Nationals tournaments are also sanctioned with the PDGA.

 

[KYdischippy]

They're different for sure, but they have plenty of tournaments so that I can play solely Southern Nationals tournaments. I think they're great at what they do, a player run series that is actually non profit and non BS. No stupid footage on a beach volleyball network, or octo copter coverage no one cares about. The Southern Nationals just seems more player friendly....It may not replace the PDGA in whole but I think it will replace the PDGA for me.

 

[KYdischippy]

The obvious con of playing southern nationals for you would be that they are not close to Nashville. Some Southern Nationals tournaments are also sanctioned with the PDGA.

This is true, but there are some in Huntsville which is very close and in and around Memphis which is only a few hours drive. I also plan to try to td some Southern Nationals events in Nashville. I think they'll be very well accepted here. Especially at the Fontanel which just got a course put in by Will Shusterick. It's on private property and they have a cafe/bar on site, and since you can drink during Southern Nationals events it seems perfect.

 

[_MTL_]

I've been looking at the Southern Nationals platform and really like what I see. I think I am going to forego renewing my PDGA membership and play in the Southern Nationals. My current reasons: No membership fee, points series to qualify for a championship, $2 from every entry is taken out and of that $2, $1.75 is returned to the division it was taken from for payouts at the championship, my membership fees (or lack there of) won't be funneled up to prop up a pro tour.
My question is, are there any Southern Nationals players here? If so what are your pros/cons?

You do realize that you get points in PDGA events that qualify for worlds right? And that the PDGA gives money to not only am events, but groups that support and teach disc golf?

I don't see Southern Nationals giving money for grants to new clubs or school programs or anything like that.

Southern Nationals to me can be summed up in one phrase - it's great for players who want to not see the sport grow.

 

[Brodysseus]

I've been looking at the Southern Nationals platform and really like what I see. I think I am going to forego renewing my PDGA membership and play in the Southern Nationals. My current reasons: No membership fee, points series to qualify for a championship, $2 from every entry is taken out and of that $2, $1.75 is returned to the division it was taken from for payouts at the championship, my membership fees (or lack there of) won't be funneled up to prop up a pro tour.
My question is, are there any Southern Nationals players here? If so what are your pros/cons?

Good for you man, play in the events you want to!

I wish there was an unsanctioned tournament scene here in Illinois. I find good events here and there, but nothing spectacular.

 

[weeman]

There's more SN events here than PDGA events so for the sake of my car I play a bit more of the former now. For the most part they are well run and the people playing are generally more friendly and less serious about themselves than at a PDGA event. Guess its more of the southern hospitality aspect of life here. With that, I'd say at least half of the SN events I've played have had lunch catered to us. Only PDGA events that did that for us were the two Majors I played in. That adds more to the community feeling of things as the people really care to see you have a good time. From what I've seen, every SN event has had lower entry fees across the board than PDGA events. Most people here don't care to join the PDGA cause they don't see an advantage to it and don't consider ratings important or know what they are. The common comment I hear is 'why pay extra for nothing,' and to a certain degree I see their point. I still enjoy the more competitive nature of PDGA though and plan to keep traveling to play in their events as well as the local SN events.

 

[_MTL_]

With that, I'd say at least half of the SN events I've played have had lunch catered to us.

This has nothing to do with the PDGA - this is simply the decision of the tournament director.

I could do that at every event I ran within the PDGA.

These are things I don't get about SN. People bring up stuff like this that can be done within a PDGA event as reasons why it is better.

I have yet to hear one realistic point that a PDGA event doesn't or can't do to make me think that SN is a superior org.

 

[krupicka]

Good for you man, play in the events you want to!

I wish there was an unsanctioned tournament scene here in Illinois. I find good events here and there, but nothing spectacular.

Interesting. What do you think unsanctioned tournaments offer that PDGA sanctioned events don't? Northern Illinois has sanctioned tournaments every weekend. One of the reasons there aren't many unsanctioned tournaments is most tournament players prefer playing sanctioned events. Unsanctioned events generally don't stand a chance
(or are relegated to local park district type events).

btw Peoria runs a number of unsanctioned events not too far from you.

 

[jenb]

The Southern Nationals website doesn't exactly provide much information as far as I can tell. What kind of tournament formats are permitted? Do they have to follow the PDGA model? Are there ratings capped or handicapped divisions? If so, what kind of divisions can be used? Can ams be paid in cash? It's difficult to tell what is going on from the website.

 

[Rondpitt]

This is true, but there are some in Huntsville which is very close and in and around Memphis which is only a few hours drive. I also plan to try to td some Southern Nationals events in Nashville. I think they'll be very well accepted here. Especially at the Fontanel which just got a course put in by Will Shusterick. It's on private property and they have a cafe/bar on site, and since you can drink during Southern Nationals events it seems perfect.

Anyone can run a non-sanctioned event anytime. If the desire is to be able to consume (I won't assume just alcohol) then that may be the way to go. Most of the Nashville area events are PDGA sanctioned. There is the occasional non-sanctioned event; most for private fundraisers and a few for a round of GoodTime Golf.

And yes; any event (PDGA sanctioned or not) can be in the SN Series. Please note that the SN series is just that --- a year-long series of events that are connected. The connection is simple --send $2 for every player in your event to SN -- and at the end of the year they will give it away to the winners of a single championship.

Yes, the players get the money back. But, typically only a small percentage of the year-long players are able to attend that event. Compare it to the PDGA taking $2 from every player/every event and giving it away at Worlds.

The SN has had a lot of back and forth over the last few years concerning the use of alcohol during an event. And some discussion about bowl-packing, too. I have no idea how it fleshes out in an actual tournament, but their Handbook now prohibits such:

6.9.1 TD's and there designated representatives act as officials for SN tournaments.
6.9.2 The PDGA Rules of Disc Golf (801 Conduct of Players, 802 Equipment, 803 Rules of Play, and 804 Tournament Procedure) apply in regards to individual round play (i.e. from the 2-minute warning until the completion of the round PDGA Rules of Disc Golf apply). Exceptions are:
6.9.2.1 Rule 804.01 D. Special Conditions (See 6.9.3)
6.9.2.2 Rule 804.04 Rain or Hazardous Conditions (See 6.5)
6.9.2.2.1 Rule 804.05 Disqualification and Suspension (See 4.0)
6.9.2.3 Rule 804.06 Grouping and Sectioning (See 6.4)
6.9.2.4 Rule 804.07 Ties (See 6.7)
6.9.2.5 Rule 804.08 Classification of Players (See 1.0)
6.9.2.6 Rule 804.09 Officials (See 6.9.1)
6.9.3 No other rules may be stipulated which conflict with the PDGA Rules of Play, unless approved by the SN Board. Examples: the use of mulligans as a fundraising tool in charity tournaments.

Just so you know,
Ron

 

[codyroberts18]

This has nothing to do with the PDGA - this is simply the decision of the tournament director.

I could do that at every event I ran within the PDGA.

These are things I don't get about SN. People bring up stuff like this that can be done within a PDGA event as reasons why it is better.

I have yet to hear one realistic point that a PDGA event doesn't or can't do to make me think that SN is a superior org.

So what makes you not want to cater events? Although you say this isn't a realistic point, there is one thing realistic about it. Every PDGA event I have been to has really not been as good as the SN events I have been to. I for one am tired of the SN, but there have been good points made. It seems as if the smaller amount of technicalities that has to be performed makes SN events more fun, and more open to opportunities such as catering, skills contests, and overall good times. The PDGA events seem to always have TD's running around a little more, so to speak. That in turn seems to limit smaller PDGA tournaments as to what they can manage. SN tournaments are generally all small, and still fun. It may be up to the TD, but the simple fact is you don't really want to worry about catering or other things because you have to do more work for the PDGA. It's true unfortunately, no matter how much you would like to deny it. :thmbup:

When it's all said and done though, who really cares? We are just some people out throwing frisbee's in the woods in the public eye

 

[_MTL_]

So what makes you not want to cater events? Although you say this isn't a realistic point, there is one thing realistic about it. Every PDGA event I have been to has really not been as good as the SN events I have been to. I for one am tired of the SN, but there have been good points made. It seems as if the smaller amount of technicalities that has to be performed makes SN events more fun, and more open to opportunities such as catering, skills contests, and overall good times. The PDGA events seem to always have TD's running around a little more, so to speak. That in turn seems to limit smaller PDGA tournaments as to what they can manage. SN tournaments are generally all small, and still fun. It may be up to the TD, but the simple fact is you don't really want to worry about catering or other things because you have to do more work for the PDGA. It's true unfortunately, no matter how much you would like to deny it. :thmbup:

When it's all said and done though, who really cares? We are just some people out throwing frisbee's in the woods in the public eye

I have catered my events. I'm not going to use the major I ran as an example b/c it's expected, but last year I had Moe's on site for my event. I also am talking with Jersey Mikes for my upcoming event.

I've never ran a SN event so I can't compare the differences in work, but in all honesty most work I've seen comes from people not knowing what they are doing or simply not preparing for things. It could be argued, as you did, that the PDGA requires more things. But I would say that a TD creates more headaches for himself than the PDGA Does (OB lines not properly marked, OB not ending, confusing hole rules, etc).

The biggest issue I have with the PDGA is that anyone can be a tournament director. I, as a state coordinator, have standards. If you have never ran an event before, I will not approve you for anything but a C Tier. I don't care how much money you have added, what your player pack is, what your course is, nothing. The experience of an event has a lot to do with the smoothness of the event and in my mind, if I'm playing a B tier or higher, I expect smoothness.

Our experienced tournament directors that don't have these issues sadly get burned out and stop running events. Hopefully, when this happens they do what was done for me locally - and that is take someone under their wing and teach them how it's done properly. Otherwise, we are just in a big cycle.

 

[MikePinchico]

MTL, why do you have so much hate for unsanctioned events? Or do you just not like the SN series? Not everything in DG needs to grow and promote the sport. Our local non sanctioned series (Shasta Series) is basically a family that gets together every first weekend and has a good time. I like the feel of unsanctioned events myself. I know it's different for you east coast people but the PDGA from a TD perspective just takes money from payouts. At least unsanctioned events give bigger payouts and don't bring overly competitive DB's to the course.

 

[_MTL_]

MTL, why do you have so much hate for unsanctioned events? Or do you just not like the SN series? Not everything in DG needs to grow and promote the sport. Our local non sanctioned series (Shasta Series) is basically a family that gets together every first weekend and has a good time. I like the feel of unsanctioned events myself. I know it's different for you east coast people but the PDGA from a TD perspective just takes money from payouts. At least unsanctioned events give bigger payouts and don't bring overly competitive DB's to the course.

I don't hate unsanctioned events at all! I play in them all the time.

I have nothing against SN or anyone else that runs events. I'm simply defending the PDGA by responding to comments regarding why people think SN is better by providing the other side of the discussion.

 

[bayouace]

I'm so happy people who have never experienced SNDG events are so knowledgeable about SNDG and its failure to grow the sport. In Louisiana there are at least 6 new courses created in the last few years due to SNDG players pushing for them, and being helped by established SNDG clubs. Improvements at established courses are happening all the time. SNDG does not try to compete with PDGA, because we have a different agenda as described by weeman, who came to us from an established Kentucky PDGA group and knows what he is talking about. Because of my association with SNDG, there are EDGE programs in all of the middle and high schools in our school system. Clinics are held to bring in new players. I could go on, but that might affect the bashing going on by such wise folks. Did I mention, I am a PDGA member as well, so I can play in Texas and Louisiana PDGA events without paying the $10 penalty every time? SNDG is not trying to be superior to PDGA. We are a fun, viable alternative in this region, working to grow disc golf and the fun and camaraderie that goes with it. SNDG doesn't have to give grants for anything because we raise the funding ourselves on the local scenes. PDGA is a great organization and so is SNDG for those who want to be in it. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Reginald]

I have never played in a PDGA event. I live in Jackson, MS and there are not really any PDGA events close to me. The SN is the only sanctioning body that puts on tournaments in my area. I have only had good times playing in the SN, but I would play both if they were available. As for the SN not promoting or growing the sport...I'm not so sure. Does the PDGA promote disc golf in the south? I haven't seen it. Does the SN promote disc golf in the south? More so than the PDGA. The SN, as I see it, is a loose knit series of tournaments that culminates in a few different championships at the end of the season. The clubs in and around the south are the ones who grow the sport. The real problem seems to be the bickering and pissing contest between the PDGA and the SN. I don't see it ending any time soon either.

 

[_MTL_]

I certainly will take back my comments regarding growth - my comment was obviously based on ignorance.

But that doesn't mean that SN events do anything above and beyond PDGA events. I'd be curious to see how insurance and other things are handled.

 

[Brodysseus]

Interesting. What do you think unsanctioned tournaments offer that PDGA sanctioned events don't? Northern Illinois has sanctioned tournaments every weekend. One of the reasons there aren't many unsanctioned tournaments is most tournament players prefer playing sanctioned events. Unsanctioned events generally don't stand a chance
(or are relegated to local park district type events).

btw Peoria runs a number of unsanctioned events not too far from you.

This is where I usually play, through the PFC and minis through my local club. I'm upset I'm going to have to miss Ironman this weekend!

As to why unsanctioned over sanctioned: mainly lower entry fees. And also (especially in my club), lower amounts of divisions or other formats that give you bigger fields to compete against (e.g. a field of sixty gets divided into three divisions of 20, instead of 10 divisions of 6). Also, close to, if not, 100% of my entry goes to a player that beat me, not some guy from MPO. And any percent that isn't payout goes to a local club, which I am all for.

And that's fine that most people in Northern Illinois prefer sanctioned events. I just do not, mainly for the reasons listed above. There should be those events for the people who want them! I'm just being greedy and wanting more events up my alley.