Lastchancer88
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2020
- Messages
- 324
Saw this vid from Gannon Buhr make the rounds elsewhere and seemed on point w/ this thread. I think it's a good example for tensions in the language that we use, what we see, and what we do:
Gannon is saying he "pulls", and illustrates the distinct "start the lawnmower"-like setup. He emphasizes getting into that 90-degree shoulder position (see today's Cool Images from Sidewinder22 & Navel for a nice cross-reference in Simon's form & the rest of Simon's body).
What does Gannon mean, and is he wrong? I think this is where images are worth 1000 words. If you watch his lower body, he is clearly showing the correct backswing/swing mechanics from the ground up that gets him loaded into that shoulder position and he has the correct posture. It's not a bad thing to practice if you already have the mechanics right. But many of us don't, and intuitively do something different when we "pull".
Is it a pull or a sling? Is it a swing? Is it a whip?
I'll say a few things that others have shared here that have helped me. Imagine a bull whip - is the material like really soft string, or completely rigid like a broom handle? Neither - it's somewhere in between. If you try to whip an over-cooked noodle you'll fail. You can impart force on a rod/bat/golf club, but it doesn't coil & uncoil. I think the problem for most players is that they all have strong-arm tendencies at the beginning (way too "rod-like"), so making them more loose is a main priority.
Think about it like a smooth flow of tension in the arm that is resisting the pocket collapse as your body rotates.
Think about the arm like part of a whip that begins with your feet and is anchored in your center of gravity.
Think about the Olympic hammer thrower or a ball pulled taut at the end of a string, swinging around and around.
If you think about "starting the lawnmower", whatever you do, don't "chicken-wing" yourself into that artificial elbow-forward "gate hinge" position by pulling with the arm muscles. However you get your body into the pocket, you need enough smooth tension in that whip/sling arm to leverage the disc out. But the pocket should be formed by good posture & mechanics. As you transfer ground force & momentum up the chain, the arm resists the pocket collapsing as your plant leg/body form the brace just enough to get the disc snapping toward the target.
Gannon's elbow moves ahead of his hip for the same reason that Gibson and every other top thrower's does - he has blocked the forward momentum with his brace and is holding onto the disc as long as possible.
Also interesting, later in the video, he shows "poor lower body mechanics", which looks distinctly like Paul Oman. To my eye, it looks like "good leg mechanics but at a downtempo with an uptempo upper body swing." Super interesting.
Gannon also throws more than 200' further than me, so as always there's more to learn!
Eagle has always claimed the "elbow through the door of a burning building" as part of the power source in a throw along with the lower body. From everything I've gleamed, I think what they're both going for isn't the 90 degree angle trope or chicken winging, but the feel of the elbow and disc being deep in the pocket mid throw and lagging before the disc redirects out of your hand. His examples on video are hard to see, but Gannon really redirects his throw similar to Eagle (Yes I l know he's a Will S clone). I think he's trying to teach that leverage. I took a couple screen caps. The yellow disc was his "straight arm" throw vs the blue being his normal 60% aka 500ft throw according to him.
You can really see the difference in hand position on the disc. Forgive the slight timing indiscretions.
Only tagging you Bry because you posted the vid and already broke down most of it.