Success of high level athletes in disc golf...

[blackcatsmith]

Wait... people throw cell phones competitively?

 

[sidewinder22]

Wait... people throw cell phones competitively?

 

[DriveCrusher2]

I am going to agree with the original post on a few things and I disagree with some of them as well, let me explain. For instance, the athletic background definitely takes a role in how well someone plays disc golf, if you have athletic ability you are going to be able to pick up techniques and strategies quickly and if you are in your game ready physical fitness then you are obviously going to be a step ahead of everyone else. I was a college baseball player, outfield and middle infield, so I had an arm (not boasting about it, I just knew I had great arm strength) so when I learned how to release and throw forehand, I could hit 400' easy, no problem. With my baseball background it was easy because it was a familiar motion to me and I was in game ready shape. When it came to backhand I was able to pick it up right away as well, I played ultimate a few times and could hit lefthanded, which was also a familiar motion in the lower half except switches just a little with the upper body.

When it comes to the competition I believe that the people who are winning the majority of the tournaments (COUGH COUGH MCBETH!) are there because of their hard work, physical abilities and athleticism. Yes you must practice, yes it takes the extra time to put in practice and those people on top of the cards all the time are the ones that work hard THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON! Not because the talent pool is down, there are a lot of intelligent and talented golfers out there, and I say intelligent because it takes more than athleticism to win a tournament, you have to be smart by knowing your bag and your conditions and the course. SHOT SELECTION! If you haven't noticed by now this is my baseball background coming out (IE Pitch Selection, base selection, knowing where to go with the ball.)

Having that baseball background I will tell you now my weakest part of my game is my putting because it is an odd motion and I don't really have much time to practice, I don't have my own basket and right now it is about 9 degrees F outside. This is where I think players in warmer states have the advantage (playing year round). Stupid Midwest and its tornadoes and earthquakes and blizzards.

Let's talk about this D2 football player. By the way it sounds he used all upper body strength, my guess he is a lineman or linebacker. They have to block other people and use their upper body strength to hold them back, that being said it is why he was able to throw 400' with upper body strength. The work out for a football player comes into strength training 50% and stamina 50%. What I am getting at is this guy probably did A LOT of bench press, which means he had a huge chest and probably strong shoulders/rotator cuffs. The only thing that maybe helped this player throw that far was because he kept his overall strength while also having his flexibility, this is important, strength plus flexibility will equal a much better outcome. This is where I think disc golfers are not wanting to get a large chest because they think they will lose there ability to throw far being all swelled up, and they are right, it is hard to stay flexible in that region and very hard to maintain but it is possible.

Anyway that being said I think that agility, conditioning and weight training will make you a better disc golf player, to be an athlete you must maintain that peak physical fitness. Running long distance to keep your stamina, agility training (hip power) to get more explosive power off the teepad, lower body weight training (calves and hamstrings and quads) for lower body explosivness, upper body weight training (focus on shoulders, back, forearms and triceps) Bench press lightly to keep flexibilty and you are set. Weekly regimen right there is what I do and it pays off

 

[runningDoc]

Wait... people throw discs at baskets competitively?

FTFY!


I think the OP is dismissing the current crop of top level players too easily.

My hypothesis would be that if you had a bunch of superior athletes start to play and dedicate time to disc golf you'd raise the levels of the average professionals/open players immensely, but the current top players would still be there.

The skill set needed in DG isn't that unique, so the current top players are already pushing its limits. Adding a newbie super athlete, or a bunch of newbie athletes would just mean they might be professional level quicker, but not guarantee world champions.

case in point. Million Dollar Arm. A disney movie? Yup but it actually is a real life story and mimics what the OP is alluding to: could you create a Major League Baseball Pitcher from scratch using elite level athletes from India?

Naturally you'd think that it would be some failed cricket player who would succeed (because there are a lot of cricket players who can throw 90mph +) but it turns out they were just natural athletes to begin with who specialized in javelin throwing.

With top level training they've managed to break into minor league baseball which is an excellent achievement.

Again if you got superior Gattaca gene level human specimens to train full time in DG they'd make the Open and Pro ranks quickly, but you still have to play the game and what happens in Gattaca? The superior gene'd superhumans still have to deal with failure because at very very top levels its not about being superhuman physically but those little things like mental toughness and little lucky breaks.

 

[filobedo]

Competitive traditional golf and surfing are the two most difficult sports to be consistently good at in my opinion. I have several family members and friends that are scratch golfers that could not make it on mini tours because their handicap was essentially generated from playing the same course consistently and practicing in the same conditions day after day. If Kelly Slater ever took up dg seriously, he would be one of the top Masters players in the world and if Camillo Villegas, Jason Day, Rory, Martin Laird, Rickie Fowler and Zach Johnson played dg I am sure they would be competitive as well. I did have a tour player mention to me that Will McKenzie may have played dg in his past when he found out I played but not sure if he was any good.

 

[DriveCrusher2]

case in point. Million Dollar Arm. A disney movie? Yup but it actually is a real life story and mimics what the OP is alluding to: could you create a Major League Baseball Pitcher from scratch using elite level athletes from India?

Naturally you'd think that it would be some failed cricket player who would succeed (because there are a lot of cricket players who can throw 90mph +) but it turns out they were just natural athletes to begin with who specialized in javelin throwing.

I am quoting these comments for a couple reasons;
1. I agree they were natural athletes and yes you would think they were failed cricket players.

2. Being a javelin thrower doesn't surprise me they can throw as hard as they could, they had the arm strength, you can't teach that, you can only improve it, BUT if you pay attention to the movie these two players were given access to a pitching coach that taught them the proper movements to pitch, they knew how to throw with the proper feet and honestly throwing javelin isn't much different, just holding something different and changing your angle of your throw.

Now I can see where you are coming from, but in Million Dollar Arm the idea was going to be centralized around somebody who was a cricket bowler that threw hard, because they would be easy to transition over, but the javelin players were also an option because they still threw something. To compare this to disc golf.... its a stretch, baseball is the only sport comparable to disc golf so to speak. Baseball to ball golf, that can transition easy, baseball to disc golf is probably the best comparison, forehand/overhand (throwing), backhand (hitting). Putting would be turning a double play, flipping the ball at middle infield, thats where I see the comparison. After reading through this I am agreeing with you I guess and sort of proving the OP's point but I also see the flaws in his statement is what I am getting at too.

I also want to add this, if you are in a competitive mind set for anything you are going to give it your all, the majority of disc golfers are in a casual/social mind set where they either like going to tournaments because they are around people who all like DG or they llike going to their leagues because their friends are there, they don't care about winning or losing and that is where the line separates the good from the bad.

 

[TruthHurts]

You know what, I'm wrong. Obviously the top 10 disc golfers in the world are elite athletes that perfected an incredibly difficult sport. They would find success in any sport they chose. We're just lucky they chose disc golf, so we can watch them compete.

I'm delusional to think a person groomed for sports from childhood, who was able to compete against thousands of other highly groomed athletes, and come out on top against them, would stand a chance against a few guys that played high school basketball...

 

[DriveCrusher2]

You know what, I'm wrong. Obviously the top 10 disc golfers in the world are elite athletes that perfected an incredibly difficult sport. They would find success in any sport they chose. We're just lucky they chose disc golf, so we can watch them compete.

I'm delusional to think a person groomed for sports from childhood, who was able to compete against thousands of other highly groomed athletes, and come out on top against them, would stand a chance against a few guys that played high school basketball...

I never said you were wrong, in fact I agreed with what you were saying to an extent, an athlete has the ability to learn any sport/skill they choose to want to learn. I was simply stating why someone was able to do what they were doing......

 

[runningDoc]

You know what, I'm wrong. Obviously the top 10 disc golfers in the world are elite athletes that perfected an incredibly difficult sport. They would find success in any sport they chose. We're just lucky they chose disc golf, so we can watch them compete.

I'm delusional to think a person groomed for sports from childhood, who was able to compete against thousands of other highly groomed athletes, and come out on top against them, would stand a chance against a few guys that played high school basketball...

I get it now... you're trolling.

we're not disagreeing with you. superior athletes are going to excel at any sport. its obvious.

but you still have to play the game to achieve the outcomes. which is why you'll have guys like larry bird, john daly, pedro martinez who have achieved the sports highest successes despite not being the best athletes.

we've been a little spoiled lately with the Michael Jordans, Lebron James', Jon Bones Jones of late. But even Lebron loses. Jordan still experienced losing in his prime (those years he couldn't get past the celtics and pistons) and one year against the Magic.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you could have the perfect athlete play DG and he'll still lose, because the cumulative history of sport outcomes has shown it happens.

 

[blackcatsmith]

You know what, I'm wrong. Obviously the top 10 disc golfers in the world are elite athletes that perfected an incredibly difficult sport. They would find success in any sport they chose. We're just lucky they chose disc golf, so we can watch them compete.

I'm delusional to think a person groomed for sports from childhood, who was able to compete against thousands of other highly groomed athletes, and come out on top against them, would stand a chance against a few guys that played high school basketball...

We ALL are 'equipped' with different attributes and tendencies, some gained, some embedded both physically and mentally. It's the combination of all these variables in our character and physique that determine our success or lack thereof at the endeavor at hand. I'd wager that poise and mental fortitude are what set the Paul McBeths of the world apart from the rest of the field, and not physical prowess.

 

[TruthHurts]

We ALL are 'equipped' with different attributes and tendencies, some gained, some embedded both physically and mentally. It's the combination of all these variables in our character and physique that determine our success or lack thereof at the endeavor at hand. I'd wager that poise and mental fortitude are what set the Paul McBeths of the world apart from the rest of the field, and not physical prowess.

THAT I would agree with. The ability to perform in spite of pressure. He has massive amounts of poise, and mental toughness. I don't think he's a physical specimen, but his ability to perform amid pressure sets him apart.

 

[TruthHurts]

I get it now... you're trolling.

we're not disagreeing with you. superior athletes are going to excel at any sport. its obvious.

but you still have to play the game to achieve the outcomes. which is why you'll have guys like larry bird, john daly, pedro martinez who have achieved the sports highest successes despite not being the best athletes.

we've been a little spoiled lately with the Michael Jordans, Lebron James', Jon Bones Jones of late. But even Lebron loses. Jordan still experienced losing in his prime (those years he couldn't get past the celtics and pistons) and one year against the Magic.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you could have the perfect athlete play DG and he'll still lose, because the cumulative history of sport outcomes has shown it happens.

I'm not trolling, I'm expressing frustration. I strongly disagree about Bird, Daly, and Martinez not being some of the "best athletes." In comparison to others in their respective sports at the highest of levels, they may not have been the most athletically gifted, but that's like saying compared to Isaac Newton, Maxwell or Bohr were of moderate intellects. Compared to everybody else in the world, their genius is undeniable.

 

[bnbanbury]

You know what, I'm wrong. Obviously the top 10 disc golfers in the world are elite athletes that perfected an incredibly difficult sport. They would find success in any sport they chose. We're just lucky they chose disc golf, so we can watch them compete.

I'm delusional to think a person groomed for sports from childhood, who was able to compete against thousands of other highly groomed athletes, and come out on top against them, would stand a chance against a few guys that played high school basketball...

At the beginning of the discussion the basis was: "somebody with a more pronounced athletic background, say a college baseball player from a division 2 school, to devote the same amount of time to training disc golf, they would surpass the top players in a short amount of time. Not only in scores, but in distance, putting range, etc." That's your thesis.

There are division 2 athletes who play disc golf- in fact there are a lot of people who are former division 1 and 2 athletes who never came close to being a professional athlete and some of these people play disc golf.

You now seem to be shifting the discussion to truly elite athletes like the major stars of professional sports and if the question has become "are pro disc golfers as athletic as Lebron James?" then I would say no, probably not. It stands to reason that the larger the pool of athletes playing the more outliers you would have on both sides of the equation (those that are otherwise athletic but suck at disc golf and those who are super athletic and great).

Do I think that disc golfers are elite athletes in that they could have played baseball instead and they would be playing pro ball right now? I doubt it, but who really knows. Do I think that most of the top disc golfefers are as athletic at a division 2 baseball player? Absolutely I do.

 

[garublador]

My cherry picked example was intended to show that with minimal effort, a guy who was a natural athlete, meaning he excelled at other sports, was able to become competitive in a very short period of time.

But it doesn't show that those athletes, in general will do the same thing or that it's impossible to do if you don't already excel at other sports. The logic behind it is terrible.

The movements associated with disc golf throws are not exceptionally hard to master, and were somebody who was able to master much more complex, physically demanding sports, to devote time to disc golf, the time spent perfecting it would be shorter, leading to quicker success.

But how do you know that the current best disc golfers in the world wouldn't have excelled at other sports? For you to be right two things have to be true:

1) Athletes that excel at other sports would have to be just as good at disc golf if they put the time into it.

2) Top disc golfers wouldn't excel at other sports if they put the time into it.

You have given zero evidence that either one of those is true. While that doesn't' prove you're wrong, it also shows that you're just making stuff up rather than making a valid argument. While that may be a fun "who would win in a fight" type hypothetical argument, it's no where near as cut and dry as you're making it sound. We're just pointing out that you're expressing an opinion based on very little evidence and not some sort of compelling argument.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Not to derail it even further but the BJJ guys always say that bs about technique and then turn around and roid till the roosters crow. The technique speech has been handed down from the mcdojos to sell BJJ to the pimply wimps whose parents wield the credit card.

Watch Royce Gracie's first few UFC tournaments. He's about a stick, who ran through guys 3-4 times his size, who were good in their respective disciplines.

 

[Shamis]

With any small/fringe/emerging sport, there is always a limited talent pool and some above average players dominate at the top. If the sport gains momentum, then the next generation of pro players ALL end up being better than the best players from the prior generation.

Eventually the talent pool gets saturated, and then everybody starts doing steroids.

That being said, disc golf, much like regular golf, is more about timing and consistency than raw athleticism, and although great athletes will always do well, there will always be random outliers that are completely out of shape drunks who can play with the best.

 

[TruthHurts]

Watch Royce Gracie's first few UFC tournaments. He's about a stick, who ran through guys 3-4 times his size, who were good in their respective disciplines.

The first UFC's were designed to advertise the effectiveness of bjj, so they could open up Gracie schools across the country, and make money. Against opponents unaware of how to defend against it, Royce found great success. The age of pure grapplers dominating MMA has passed, but they single handedly altered the sport.

 

[SonicGuy]

Watch Royce Gracie's first few UFC tournaments. He's about a stick, who ran through guys 3-4 times his size, who were good in their respective disciplines.

And also roiding the whole time lol

Seriously though, the better comparison is when he fought Hughes or Saku. Both Hughes and Saku had a strength advantage and used it to beat him up despite their "inferior" technique.

 

[TruthHurts]

But it doesn't show that those athletes, in general will do the same thing or that it's impossible to do if you don't already excel at other sports. The logic behind it is terrible.

But how do you know that the current best disc golfers in the world wouldn't have excelled at other sports? For you to be right two things have to be true:

1) Athletes that excel at other sports would have to be just as good at disc golf if they put the time into it.

2) Top disc golfers wouldn't excel at other sports if they put the time into it.

You have given zero evidence that either one of those is true. While that doesn't' prove you're wrong, it also shows that you're just making stuff up rather than making a valid argument. While that may be a fun "who would win in a fight" type hypothetical argument, it's no where near as cut and dry as you're making it sound. We're just pointing out that you're expressing an opinion based on very little evidence and not some sort of compelling argument.

It is definitely a hypothetical argument, and it's impossible to validate, or invalidate. I don't have firm evidence one way or the other. I have seen names of disc golfers mentioned who are in some way affiliated with college athletics, but no hard facts about their careers in college sports. What kind of success did these guys have in college at the sports they played? From a quick Google search, no college stats have shown up for any of the names mentioned.

Going forward off of the assumption that they didn't have successful careers in college athletics, but found success as disc golfers. Would that not aid in the argument, that a successful, division 2 level athlete would be able to perform well at disc golf?

 

[sidewinder22]

Richard Sherman could be the best disc golfer of all time.