Targets-in the scheme of things

[Mando]

Isn't galvanized and stainless heavier than the zinc coated chains? I believe link weight makes a huge difference when you add them all up.

I have experimented with multiple types of chain when I was creating a batch of homemade baskets a little over a decade ago. We also observed multiple baskets from early 90's thru late 20teens. Even showed disc and basket manufacturers pros and cons of basket chain selection. Side Factors include packaging, shipping weight , availability of materials etc

Innova used to be tops but past 15 years have been a little disappointing

Please, tell us more. Discatcher dominates the overall DGCR list with 2751 courses out of 8300, but if you look at courses installed since 2020, Dynamic is hot on their trail 344 to 249.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying there's no difference between Chainstar Pros, DisCatchers, Black Holes, Veterans, Mach X, etc.

Not all baskets are created equal, and the plethora of baskets on the market have their pros and cons, whatever they might be. Some players have stronger preferences than others.

But IMHO swapping out old Chainstars or Mach III's for 18 new insert basket of your choice here, isn't going to change how the course plays or its rating.

Swapping them out for posts would likely make for a less satisfying experience, and adversely affect ratings.

"Upgrading" to baskets to an object course would improve the rating, provided everything else is OK, and playing it as an object course leaves players somewhat unsatisfied with the experience.

 

[DavidSauls]

Or, for the assortment of top-level baskets, we might say that where the baskets are matters a whole lot more than which baskets are there.

 

[Mando]

I don't know how many of you have priced baskets recently, but a new Discatcher is gonna run you $525, or $495 apiece for 9 or more. For most backyard private course owners, this is beyond what we are willing to pay, when you could have bought 6 practice baskets for the price of one.

 

[Cgkdisc]

One reason the Veteran basket installations surged this past year is due to shipping delays during Covid. Our Park Dept wanted to get bids on Discatchers along with Veterans this past spring but Discatchers were still "on the boat" and unavailable. In talking with DD, they had lucked out on getting their shipload docked ahead of schedule for some reason and appeared to be the only primary mfr with stock. Related to galvanizing, it appears the main difference between the Patriot and Veteran Championship class basket is galvanized chain versus stainless chain, respectively, with the Veterans $100 more per basket.

 

[Mando]

One reason the Veteran basket installations surged this past year is due to shipping delays during Covid. Our Park Dept wanted to get bids on Discatchers along with Veterans this past spring but Discatchers were still "on the boat" and unavailable. In talking with DD, they had lucked out on getting their shipload docked ahead of schedule for some reason and appeared to be the only primary mfr with stock. Related to galvanizing, it appears the main difference between the Patriot and Veteran Championship class basket is galvanized chain versus stainless chain, respectively, with the Veterans $100 more per basket.

Interesting ! That's some real inside information. I wish there were more options in between permanent and practice baskets like the Discatcher Sport 24 with galvanized chains. The zinc coated chains are the biggest drawback to the practice baskets, IMO.

 

[Shuie]

I'll chime in here. I would down grade 20% for tones or poles and 10% for any "basket". In my eyes, I don't really knock a course to bad if they went out of their way to mimic a disc golf basket, the best they could. I didn't mind those planter baskets when I played Sugaree. At the Pond,I have a mixed bag of real baskets and practice baskets but, I've added chains and upgraded them.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't know how many of you have priced baskets recently, but a new Discatcher is gonna run you $525, or $495 apiece for 9 or more. For most backyard private course owners, this is beyond what we are willing to pay, when you could have bought 6 practice baskets for the price of one.

True, but my opinion of a course -- public or private -- isn't based on what it could be, if it had a better budget.

Our private course is OK on baskets, but we have a lot of carpet tees; the lack of a paid grounds crew means it gets pretty ragged in summer; and there's a lot we could do with earthmoving and forestry equipment and a landscape service.

For that matter, some public courses around here could be nicer, with bigger budgets.

 

[Rastnav]

Unless the baskets are so poor that it's hard/noticeably harder to make putts, I don't really care what the baskets are. Pretty much any baskets, including portable consumer grade practice baskets, are going to satisfy that.

However, there are two big issues where homemade, practice and even older baskets are going to lag.

The first is condition. A basket that's visibly old, especially one that is rusted, is just overall less satisfying. As with most things in disc golf, aesthetics matter.

The second is basket visibility. This somewhat goes hand in hand with condition, but the bright, powder coated bands at the top of new baskets are simply going to make playing a course for the first time more enjoyable. At least for any course where it's not dead obvious where the basket is on a given hole. An old Mach II can be hard to spot even at 125 feet if there is just a little bit of shade and tree cover. On a 450 foot par 4 with a dogleg? That scouting job starts to get much tougher.

 

[Mando]

Unless the baskets are so poor that it's hard/noticeably harder to make putts, I don't really care what the baskets are. Pretty much any baskets, including portable consumer grade practice baskets, are going to satisfy that.

However, there are two big issues where homemade, practice and even older baskets are going to lag.

The first is condition. A basket that's visibly old, especially one that is rusted, is just overall less satisfying. As with most things in disc golf, aesthetics matter.

The second is basket visibility. This somewhat goes hand in hand with condition, but the bright, powder coated bands at the top of new baskets are simply going to make playing a course for the first time more enjoyable. At least for any course where it's not dead obvious where the basket is on a given hole. An old Mach II can be hard to spot even at 125 feet if there is just a little bit of shade and tree cover. On a 450 foot par 4 with a dogleg? That scouting job starts to get much tougher.

I actually just walked my course to check the basket conditions and was shocked at how good the chains look on MVP Black Hole Pros that were installed in 2016. The only one with significant rust is in my yard, so I was expecting the worst. The others are just dull, not as bright and shiny when they were new...but not rusty.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I'm not saying I like rusty chains, but I played on several baskets showing signs of rust. I don't recall any of them spitting outputs I thought should have stayed in.

With newer baskets look better? Sure.
Would they really be that much more satisfying to play on. Not much.

Although newer baskets might enhance visibility on a well-wooded course, with plenty of shadows. Being able to spot a basket through the woods (without having to walk halfway up a long or hilly fairway) does make a course more enjoyable to play.

...at least for me.

But a tall flag could do the same thing, for a lot less.

 

[DavidSauls]

Visibility is like signage. It's a big deal on the first play, maybe the second, and after that, you know where you're going and where you're throwing. And that's assuming you're not playing with someone who can guide you.

Which brings us to the question: Is the quality of a course dependent on the first play, or regular play?

Obviously, for travelers and course baggers, the first play carries a lot of weight. And we presume reviews are most useful for players who've never played a course. But I don't think it's in the rating/review guidelines.

 

[zontar]

Visibility is like signage. It's a big deal on the first play, maybe the second, and after that, you know where you're going and where you're throwing. And that's assuming you're not playing with someone who can guide you.

Which brings us to the question: Is the quality of a course dependent on the first play, or regular play?

Obviously, for travelers and course baggers, the first play carries a lot of weight. And we presume reviews are most useful for players who've never played a course. But I don't think it's in the rating/review guidelines.

great question! I value a course that continues to be enjoyed, year after year. first play usually feels like expiration, regardless of how well set up it is.

 

[Rastnav]

[Will] newer baskets look better? Sure.
Would they really be that much more satisfying to play on. Not much.

My statement was entirely about aesthetics. There nothing intrinsic to a little rust, etc. that would make me feel like the basket wouldn't catch as well.

As far as more satisfying, of course that's entirely personal preference. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I walk into a store that has harsh fluorescent lighting and dingy linoleum floors, it's just not as nice an experience as warmer lights and cleaner looking floors would be. If I walked onto a course and there was beer cans and other trash all over it, that's not going to affect the lines I have to hit or how the baskets catch, but it's not going to feel as nice.

Conversely, my home course has Mach IIs. They're old and I'm sure they don't catch putts as well. However, they fit into the overall feel of a course that was put in around 1987. But they also aren't rusty. They just have that "well worn" look as if they all have caught a million putts. Rusted baskets make a place feel unloved and uncared for, even if that's not really true. I have the same feeling about the tee sign that's been missing from #16 since the first time I ever played the course with an Innova starter set that I probably bought at Dick's long before I ever took playing seriously.

As to whether flags serve the purpose of visibility, they can, but they won't be as good for as long without replacement. I've seen plenty of flags that just fade into the background because they are old, worn and stained.

 

[Rastnav]

Visibility is like signage. It's a big deal on the first play, maybe the second, and after that, you know where you're going and where you're throwing. And that's assuming you're not playing with someone who can guide you.

Which brings us to the question: Is the quality of a course dependent on the first play, or regular play?

Obviously, for travelers and course baggers, the first play carries a lot of weight. And we presume reviews are most useful for players who've never played a course. But I don't think it's in the rating/review guidelines.

I think there is merit to the old saw "You never get a second chance to make a first impression." It's not necessarily fair, but then what is?

 

[lee76007]

I'm a big fan of the Chainstar Pros, no particular reason really. I just like em'. Mach VII's are really solid too. Personally I'm not real picky. If I had a least favorite it'd be the Prodigy T models, mostly because of my soft, non centered putts

The one and only time I played Chainstar Pros last year, they became my favorite. If my putter touched chains, it was dropping in with that dull metallic sound. I played them at True Timber in Richmond, Virginia. When I wrote my review, I included that there were 24 in the DGCR data base including Paul McBeth's New London Tech on the other side of the state. Just did a search and there are now 43 courses with Chainstar Pros, nice increase in just a year's time. I thought about buying one for the backyard to practice, more than $400 dollar, and out of stock, probably a good thing, the Mrs. "how much".

 

[Mando]

I actually just walked my course to check the basket conditions and was shocked at how good the chains look on MVP Black Hole Pros that were installed in 2016. The only one with significant rust is in my yard, so I was expecting the worst. The others are just dull, not as bright and shiny when they were new...but not rusty.

I've been racking my brain, trying to figure out why one basket has significant rust and all the others are rust-free and it finally dawned on me. The rusty chains are on Hole C, which is also the practice basket in the yard. It probably gets at least 30 times the use of the other baskets on the course.

 

[txmxer]

I've been racking my brain, trying to figure out why one basket has significant rust and all the others are rust-free and it finally dawned on me. The rusty chains are on Hole C, which is also the practice basket in the yard. It probably gets at least 30 times the use of the other baskets on the course.

I assume the rust is only on the galvanized chains? The rest of the materials are painted or powder coated?

Is that the basket you bought originally?

If yes to above, it's likely the chain is from a different batch than the rest.

 

[Mando]

I assume the rust is only on the galvanized chains? The rest of the materials are painted or powder coated?

Is that the basket you bought originally?

If yes to above, it's likely the chain is from a different batch than the rest.

Yes,bought originally. The MVP Black Hole Pros have zinc chains, not galvanized.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I've been racking my brain, trying to figure out why one basket has significant rust and all the others are rust-free and it finally dawned on me. The rusty chains are on Hole C, which is also the practice basket in the yard. It probably gets at least 30 times the use of the other baskets on the course.

The salt that sweats out of your pores on your hands gets on your discs and therefore the practice basket. That's also a big reason why the practice basket rusts, it's them sweaty hands that have salt.

Brawndo, it's what disc golfers crave.