TD Rules: Verbal vs On Paper

[DiscFifty]

I realize TD's can basically set any rule up for the tournament they want to, however....the bigger question is do these rules HAVE to be on paper (rule sheet) or can the TD just verbally address the rules at the player's meeting? Thx.

 

[biscoe]

They can be addressed at the player's meeting and not printed. Not what I do myself or recommend however.

 

[JC17393]

They can definitely address course specific rules at the players' meeting rather than on paper. But if these rules are anything more complicated than generic statements of "all water is OB" or "all pavement is OB", then they absolutely should be written down to avoid confusion.

There is nothing I hate more as a player than a long drawn out players' meeting where the TD goes hole by hole to describe OB areas, mandos, when you play the short tee, when you play the long tee, or any other course/hole specific rules or conditions. Especially since I'm liable to forget what he said about hole 2 by the time he gets to describing hole 13, let alone by the time I actually play hole 2. Put it down on paper, hand it out at check-in, insist that players read it and use the players' meeting to ask questions and get clarifications of what is on the paper. If it's printed and the players don't ask about it, the TD shouldn't need to address it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Exactly. Heck, as a TD who's given out written rules, when something bizarre happens I tell the player to refer to the rule sheet. I know what I meant the rule to be, but I'm sticking by whatever the rule sheet actually says.

 

[DiscFifty]

Thx for the comments. I assumed (wrongly) that all rules had to be on paper in order to enforce them.

 

[JC17393]

Thx for the comments. I assumed (wrongly) that all rules had to be on paper in order to enforce them.

805.03 Special Conditions
A. Rules governing special conditions that may exist on the course shall be clearly defined and disseminated to all players prior to the start of the tournament. All special conditions shall be covered in the players' meeting. Each player is responsible for adhering to all points covered in the player's meeting.​

That's the only part of the rule book that addresses special conditions and the like. Nothing about being on paper, just that the info must be clearly defined and disseminated to all players before the tournament begins.

While the rule specifically mentions covering these things at the players' meeting, not every player attends the players' meeting (or pays attention if he is there). The only way to assure that the info is disseminated to all players is to put it in writing and put the written text into each player's hands directly. At the very least, by doing so, the TD is eliminating the possibility of a he-said, he-said disagreement over whether something was covered at the players' meeting. A player can claim the TD didn't mention something and deflect blame from himself (even if the TD clearly mentioned it). He can't deflect anything if his only excuse is "I didn't read the caddy notes/player program that was handed to me before the tournament".

 

[arhunt]

I once played a tournament where a rules sheet was handed out, but then the TD decided to modify one of the rules and announced the change in the players meeting. I tried to argue that it was unreasonable to pass out a printed rules sheet, then not expect players to follow the written rules during an intense round(especially because it was a really weird, really specific rule). The TD called the PDGA and the PDGA said that what the TD says in a rules meeting overrules any written handout.

It cost a guy on my card a stroke and the cash that would have come with that stroke. What I wonder is how many players followed the written rule and didn't get penalized...

 

[Pbmercil]

Call me crazy but I actually pay attention, write anything that seems pertinent down, AND ask questions during the players meeting. I'm well aware that I'm in the extreme minority. Though rules sheets are nice to have I'll go along with whatever works best for the TD.

 

[DavidSauls]

Where special rules get complex, writing them down allows the TD to get the wording exactly right. During a speech, the TD might casually misstate a rule, leading to grief later on. And that's before you get into players quoting what they think they heard.

I once referred to an island hole by saying the disc had to land on the island; if it didn't, you take a stroke and throw from the drop zone. Of course, I should have said the disc has to come to rest on the island; I opened things up to a debate when a disc landed on the island but skipped off.

Not as big a deal on courses with few special rules, and where those rules are simple. But I play a lot on courses that aren't that way.

Not to mention.....I hate listening to a 10-minute speech of special rules. Especially if I already know them. Even more especially on a course I'm unfamiliar with, so can't match the hole number to what the TD is saying. Give them to me to read when I get to the subject hole.

 

[Steve West]

Attending the players meeting and understanding the Instructions and Special Conditions is one of the few disc golf skills I excel at.

 

[scarpfish]

Putting stuff down on paper makes matters involving these situations a lot easier for players to resolve them on their own. Nonetheless, things like errors, ambiguities or 11th hour changes may make a verbal announcement to correct/clarify the instructions at a players meeting necessary. I'd rather a TD be overly redundant than overly vague.

 

[DiscFifty]

805.03 Special Conditions
A. Rules governing special conditions that may exist on the course shall be clearly defined and disseminated to all players prior to the start of the tournament. All special conditions shall be covered in the players' meeting. Each player is responsible for adhering to all points covered in the player's meeting.​

That's the only part of the rule book that addresses special conditions and the like. Nothing about being on paper, just that the info must be clearly defined and disseminated to all players before the tournament begins.

While the rule specifically mentions covering these things at the players' meeting, not every player attends the players' meeting (or pays attention if he is there). The only way to assure that the info is disseminated to all players is to put it in writing and put the written text into each player's hands directly. At the very least, by doing so, the TD is eliminating the possibility of a he-said, he-said disagreement over whether something was covered at the players' meeting. A player can claim the TD didn't mention something and deflect blame from himself (even if the TD clearly mentioned it). He can't deflect anything if his only excuse is "I didn't read the caddy notes/player program that was handed to me before the tournament".

Perfect. Thank you! :clap:

 

[JeremyKShort]

In the one tournament I've been involved with running, we put it all on the back of the scorecard. We had it for each hole, every OB, mando and drop zone. We made sure everyone knew it was all on there.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I once played a tournament where a rules sheet was handed out, but then the TD decided to modify one of the rules and announced the change in the players meeting. I tried to argue that it was unreasonable to pass out a printed rules sheet, then not expect players to follow the written rules during an intense round(especially because it was a really weird, really specific rule). The TD called the PDGA and the PDGA said that what the TD says in a rules meeting overrules any written handout.



It cost a guy on my card a stroke and the cash that would have come with that stroke. What I wonder is how many players followed the written rule and didn't get penalized...

The only way I can see that happening is if there was some weird thing happen that alters the course. Last minute rain that floods some are, or make something really muddy, some trees go down, city blocking off part of the park at the last minute, that sort of thing.
We printed off our rules several days ahead of time, if a last minute change had to happen, we would had to have just given It to everyone everyone verbally ahead at the players meeting. But we thought out our stuff well ahead of time, so outside of a last minute crisis we wouldn't have needed to alter anything.

 

[tampora]

There is nothing I hate more as a player than a long drawn out players' meeting where the TD goes hole by hole to describe OB areas, mandos, when you play the short tee, when you play the long tee, or any other course/hole specific rules or conditions. Especially since I'm liable to forget what he said about hole 2 by the time he gets to describing hole 13, let alone by the time I actually play hole 2.

Agreed. Even on my home course, there's about 6 holes I instantly know by number. The rest, I have to mentally count off before or after one of those memorable holes. When a TD rattles off a dozen rules about a dozen different holes for in quick succession, he's wasting his breath and both of our time.

 

[DavidSauls]

Agreed. Even on my home course, there's about 6 holes I instantly know by number. The rest, I have to mentally count off before or after one of those memorable holes. When a TD rattles off a dozen rules about a dozen different holes for in quick succession, he's wasting his breath and both of our time.

Multiply that for the person playing the course for the first time.

And multiply that for the player playing in his first tournament.

 

[cjdiscgolf]

I realize TD's can basically set any rule up for the tournament they want to

um wut

This is not the case.

 

[jrawk]

The only way I can see that happening is if there was some weird thing happen that alters the course. Last minute rain that floods some are, or make something really muddy, some trees go down, city blocking off part of the park at the last minute, that sort of thing.
We printed off our rules several days ahead of time, if a last minute change had to happen, we would had to have just given It to everyone everyone verbally ahead at the players meeting. But we thought out our stuff well ahead of time, so outside of a last minute crisis we wouldn't have needed to alter anything.

This.. yep. It's frustrating when you budget and print out rules ahead of time and the unexpected occurs, with not time/money to revise and reprint.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It can also get confusing when the printing on the tee signs gets out-of-sync with the printed rules sheet or any last minute changes communicated verbally at Player Meeting.

 

[JoakimBL]

Also it's a lot harder to write something that communicates complex scenarios than you might think. When writing you know what you mean, and what you write makes perfect sense to you, but when someone else reads it, they might understand things differently or maybe not at all.
I'm not saying you shouldn't write down course rules, but it should probably be in addition to, and not a substitute for verbal communication at the players meeting. Especially for anything a little out of the ordinary.