schumijr
Bogey Member
It has to be mid-season for ESPN to fit it into their coverage calendar.
WHY WORLDS
- Thread starter dbaledge
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I think an important metric that matters is a player's World Ranking. It's tracked continuously including identifying the top ranked man and woman at the end of each year. The World Rankings include the World Championship as one of the Majors. It would seem a player's World Ranking might have a bit more prestige including how many months a player holds that position?
Another factor, historical, traditional, and financial, has been that Worlds have been a hybrid of World Championship and Convention. Separating out Open divisions for the first time this year, eases that just a bit. But still, we've tried to include as many people as possible.
In part, because we need the entry fees.
But this means we need to give these mobs of people a long time to plan their work schedules, vacations, etc. Unlike professional spectator sports, only a handful are full-time disc golfers, able to alter their life for a playout or championship. My understanding is that this is why the PDGA went to the annual points system, where points won in 2016 qualify for 2017 Worlds.
If we ever reached the point where we can hold a very small-field Worlds, with entry coveted and fought for, it'll be easier to place it at the end of the year.
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You could view this World Championship as really a late event for 2016, since that's when the qualifiers were. Instead of mid-season, it's sort of a championship that's held in the middle of the next season. Which is odd, too.
In part, because we need the entry fees.
But this means we need to give these mobs of people a long time to plan their work schedules, vacations, etc. Unlike professional spectator sports, only a handful are full-time disc golfers, able to alter their life for a playout or championship. My understanding is that this is why the PDGA went to the annual points system, where points won in 2016 qualify for 2017 Worlds.
If we ever reached the point where we can hold a very small-field Worlds, with entry coveted and fought for, it'll be easier to place it at the end of the year.
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You could view this World Championship as really a late event for 2016, since that's when the qualifiers were. Instead of mid-season, it's sort of a championship that's held in the middle of the next season. Which is odd, too.
This thread needs a companion one:
The Perfect Worlds: or, How, If You Were Re-Creating the Tournament Structure from Scratch, Would You Design Worlds?
I think it would be interesting to ponder. If we weren't hobbled with history and tradition---the good and the bad---when and where and how many courses and how many players and how they'd get there and what else might we do?
The Perfect Worlds: or, How, If You Were Re-Creating the Tournament Structure from Scratch, Would You Design Worlds?
I think it would be interesting to ponder. If we weren't hobbled with history and tradition---the good and the bad---when and where and how many courses and how many players and how they'd get there and what else might we do?
But like other sports, the discs golf greats are measured by how many championships they've won, and the World Championship is the only tournament that factors into that.
alfonseski
Birdie Member
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Yes so I am a tennis guy and here is how their system works. Tennis has 4 grand slams tournaments. Then they have masters 1000, 500, and smaller tournaments. Different level tournaments have different point values for wins or losses in each round. Those point tallies are added up and lead to the player ranking system. The player ranking system is 1 full calendar year. Which is why sometimes you will hear of players, "Defending" points. Meaning for example if they won the tournament a previous year if they do not win it that year they lose points.
Now, for grand slams(majors). No Major technically has more value than the others. Though it can be argued that the US open and Wimbledon are more prestigious than the French and Australian open, but that is maybe more personal opinion than anything(players perspective). So there is no equivalent to being, "World Champion". Though I suppose if you won all 4 majors in a calendar year it would be like you were world champion. But ultimately how tennis players are judged is how many majors they won. There are other metrics, like, weeks number 1, or tournaments total or head to head. But people care most about majors. I think that is how disc golf should be measured similarly.
You could argue that the US open has similar prestige to the players as Worlds, and some might say that the European masters has more prestige than worlds since its every 2 years. Compare it to the Olympics, imagine being a swimmer, a great swimmer. You dominate your sport for a decade, winning EVERYTHING, except the Olympics. I am guessing most people would choose to win the 2 Olympics instead. I agree with all said though that the whole world champion thing is a bit odd. Though I am a big Ricky fan so LONG LIVE THE KING!
Now, for grand slams(majors). No Major technically has more value than the others. Though it can be argued that the US open and Wimbledon are more prestigious than the French and Australian open, but that is maybe more personal opinion than anything(players perspective). So there is no equivalent to being, "World Champion". Though I suppose if you won all 4 majors in a calendar year it would be like you were world champion. But ultimately how tennis players are judged is how many majors they won. There are other metrics, like, weeks number 1, or tournaments total or head to head. But people care most about majors. I think that is how disc golf should be measured similarly.
You could argue that the US open has similar prestige to the players as Worlds, and some might say that the European masters has more prestige than worlds since its every 2 years. Compare it to the Olympics, imagine being a swimmer, a great swimmer. You dominate your sport for a decade, winning EVERYTHING, except the Olympics. I am guessing most people would choose to win the 2 Olympics instead. I agree with all said though that the whole world champion thing is a bit odd. Though I am a big Ricky fan so LONG LIVE THE KING!
Yes. Counting Majors like in tennis or ball golf would be a better metric of greatness than counting World Championships.
The U.S.D.C. is much more like what many here think the Worlds should be, than the Worlds.
It's late in the season, and you have to qualify to get into it.
The Pro Tour (DGPT, not NT, as well).
It's late in the season, and you have to qualify to get into it.
The Pro Tour (DGPT, not NT, as well).
Until about 18 years ago, there was only one Major in disc golf (Worlds). Until 2002, there were only two (Worlds and USDGC). Since then, there have been a handful of other attempts at regularly scheduled Major events. The European Open started as an every-other-year Major (alternating with Japan Open). Other tournaments have been granted Major status one year only to not be held every year or not maintain the status in subsequent years (World Doubles, Players Cup, Scandinavian Open, Aussie Open, European Masters, etc).
Worlds and USDGC have been the only consistent mainstays of the last 20 years (and even USDGC took a year off). I think it's for that reason above any other that they, Worlds in particular, are held to a higher esteem than any other event on the schedule. And deservedly so.
Maybe when we have more history behind us other events will emerge to create a true "Grand Slam" style set of Majors like ball golf and tennis have. After all, those events weren't created to be Majors necessarily. They just grew to become the most important events on their respective tours.
That makes sense. But as long one event is called the World Championship, no other event will be able to grow to the same level.
The USDGC arguably has. Some might say it was bigger for a while before they skipped a year and scaled it back a bit with the Performance Flight stuff.
Yeah I'm not up on my DG history, so it's good to hear that perspective. But in my mind a World title carries so much more weight than USDGC title. And when listening to commentary, World titles are the ones that are always brought up when talking about a player.
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
Right, but we all like that one big title. Different sports are different in this way as far as golf and tennis with the majors, what is a bigger tennis accomplishment points at the end of the year? Olympic gold medal? Majors Grand Slam? or World Tennis Championship Title?
Thinking about the topic and not doing too much research a big difference is that the World Championship is the annual or bi-annual event that crowns a champion in non-Olympic years in many many amateur sports. Not that there is much out there any more that is truly amateur, but as DG is moving into having true pros it kind of opens the door for more big events through the year. This will probably lead to a group of tournaments becoming DG Majors and the worlds championship will get re-named or just be one of the 3 or 4 big events.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
and there are still only 2.
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Disc golf does not need to be like any other sport, so why do we feel like we need to compare it to other sports' championships. Our World's is in the middle of the year. It's ok.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
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I don't even understand the argument when golf does basically the same thing.
Arguably the most important tournament of the year is in April.
dbaledge
Par Member
I just am curious why the single most important achievement and what every great player is judged on is a tournament in the middle of the year. You are right about the masters but it still doesn't determine the "World Champion".
Because it's the biggest, most prestigious event.
I'm not sure if it's still the biggest field of players to defeat---I'm too lazy to look---but for a long time it clearly was.
It's no longer the biggest in terms of number of rounds---something many lament---but it should remain very high on the amount of quality play.
After that, it's a bit of a circular argument---it's prestigious because it's Worlds, and everyone knows that. It has the title attached to it. It has and will have a stellar field of competitors. Players think of it as the biggest event---they can lose an NT and think, Well, I'll bounce back at the next NT. Lose Worlds, and it's a year before you have another chance.
It's deemed the World Championship and accepted as the World Championship, by the players and the membership, and even if it's a bit odd, it's likely to stay that way for a while yet.
That, and history. It was the World Championship when it was, by far, the biggest and best, since there wasn't much of a tour to speak of, and it continues that legacy.
With all the concessions that it's a bit strange to have it mid-season, and we certainly wouldn't design it that way if we were starting from scratch.
.....or, It just happened that way, and nobody's inclined to change it.
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Emac.
