Wrist: Active or Passive?

[tmoody]

I've been working on forehand but this question applies to both FH and BH.

My own approach has been to try to keep my wrist loose and passive, simply a fulcrum point. I seem to get the best results with this, but I have to say those results are not great. I struggle to throw 200'.

On the FH throw especially, there's a temptation to try to use my wrist actively to add spin as I throw. There's a similar temptation in BH to do a "flinging" motion. When I yield to this temption, I generally get an even shorter and less controlled result. While that ought to be enough to tell me to keep my wrists passive, I'm still uncertain because it's not as though I'm getting brilliant results either way. I do know that when I try to use my wrists to power a golf club through impact, the results are always poor, and I have a sore forearm the next day for my trouble.

Adding a mental aspect to this: I am more successful keeping my wrist loose and passive when I'm practicing in the field. When I'm on the course actually trying to execute a good controlled throw I can feel myself trying to control with my wrist, usually getting the opposite result.

What's your feeling about how your wrist works, either active or passive?

 

[sidewinder22]

Kind of loose/taut then hard at hit to transfer that momentum like a hammering a nail. Only need a small movement of the wrist.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

"Reciprocating Dingle Arm" ... now there's a phrase that needs to be trademarked.

 

[slowplastic]

My wrist definitely firms up more and feels more snappy in a FH shot than BH. BH I firm up but don't give it anything extra yet, although my form is not fully correct.

If your FH shots are wobbling definitely give it some active pop. The faster/harder the throw the more crisp and firm the snap feels. It kind of goes hand in hand with the power input.

 

[slowplastic]

Also try a FH grip, and swing the disc on an up and down vertical plane. Have a very loose wrist and feel the disc sling your wrist back when at the the top of the motion, and then when you swing towards the ground it wants to swing through with your wrist. On a grassy or non damaging surface, at the bottom of this motion just firm up the wrist and snap through, adding to gravity when it "feels" right. This is way easier for me to feel on the vertical plane, since gravity helps load the wrist back and you can easily snap through on the way down. Then just tilt the same feeling by 90 degrees and throw some FH shots with a similar feel. The point of this is to show that any wrist motion is to add to what is already happening in your swing arcs.

 

[tmoody]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I've been going out to a nearby field every day for a short (15-20 minutes) throwing practice. I just bring one disc, throw and walk, so I don't burn out any joints or ligaments.

I did a few of the suggested drills and then tried FH, trying to add a little juice on release. That helped, but I've noticed an unrelated (I think) problem: My longest and straightest throws go about 30 left of where I'm aiming.

Not sure but I think this is a result of my senior arm condition. That is, it's just about impossible for me to lead with my elbow without either hurting myself or losing power. My arm wants to travel diagonally across the front of my body before release, and if I let it do so I get a much better throw.

Getting back to wrist motion, I did some BH today too, experimenting with an unorthodox grip. I didn't find that I could really add much to my passive wrist snap, in terms of muscular force. I did find, however, that if I curled the wrist in during the pull to the pec, thus giving the disc more range of motion to snap through, I got significantly better distance.

In fact, with these two adjustments (grip and curl) my BH went from pathetic to... adequate. I have a lot of work to do on torquing my hips and shoulders to generate more power but I was getting 200' or better, consistently after these changes. And the throws were pretty straight and level.

I think I read some people saying not to curl the wrist but it worked for me. I don't curl tightly. It's just a position with no tension.

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[rhatton1]

Also try a FH grip, and swing the disc on an up and down vertical plane. Have a very loose wrist and feel the disc sling your wrist back when at the the top of the motion, and then when you swing towards the ground it wants to swing through with your wrist. On a grassy or non damaging surface, at the bottom of this motion just firm up the wrist and snap through, adding to gravity when it "feels" right. This is way easier for me to feel on the vertical plane, since gravity helps load the wrist back and you can easily snap through on the way down. Then just tilt the same feeling by 90 degrees and throw some FH shots with a similar feel. The point of this is to show that any wrist motion is to add to what is already happening in your swing arcs.

Video of this, watch the swing once gravity starts to pull it you pop it and add to it.
https://youtu.be/f9WC2NUJC_U?t=1m25s

Whenever my forehand goes shaky (often) I revert to this on the teepad and it sorts it out again.

 

[JBCHyzer]

I have a similar question about this: I've also been experimenting with the wrist being an active part in the throw vs. the passive (i.e. just letting the disc do most of the work and just utilizing the wrist as a fulcrum/leverage point in the throwing motion).

If the wrist is active in the throw, does that help control/eliminate off-axis-torque? And on the flipside, to me, if the wrist is passive, that may contribute to O.A.T.

I've been practicing a lot this work just focusing on wrist action, and that IMO, is what makes more sense to me. Or am I completely off target here?

 

[tmoody]

I have a similar question about this: I've also been experimenting with the wrist being an active part in the throw vs. the passive (i.e. just letting the disc do most of the work and just utilizing the wrist as a fulcrum/leverage point in the throwing motion).

If the wrist is active vs. passive in the throw, does that help control/eliminate off-axis-torque? And on the flipside, to me, if the wrist is passive, that may contribute to O.A.T.

I've been practicing a lot this work just focusing on wrist action, and that IMO, is what makes more sense to me. Or am I completely off target here?

I'm still practicing some of the things mentioned in this thread. I think SlowPlastic's reply is very helpful: On FH throws it helps to give some conscious wrist torque to get a good spin. There's a video that compares spin rates in FH and BH throws, and FH throws tend to have a lower spin rate anyway. So I've been trying to put some wrist into my FH. I'm still struggling with the aim problem, but that's another matter.

For BH I don't really feel like there's much I can do except keep the wrist loose. Trying to add spin consciously just isn't working for me. It just slows everything down and results in a worse result.

It really comes down to this: Which hand movement is faster, a passive snap powered by the movement of the arm or a snap powered by the wrist/forearm muscles? Since arm speed is slower in FH, I think you get a different answer in the two kinds of throws.

 

[slowplastic]

I have a similar question about this: I've also been experimenting with the wrist being an active part in the throw vs. the passive (i.e. just letting the disc do most of the work and just utilizing the wrist as a fulcrum/leverage point in the throwing motion).

If the wrist is active in the throw, does that help control/eliminate off-axis-torque? And on the flipside, to me, if the wrist is passive, that may contribute to O.A.T.

I've been practicing a lot this work just focusing on wrist action, and that IMO, is what makes more sense to me. Or am I completely off target here?

With backhand I firm up the grip and wrist near the hit point and try to angle the wrist down in "handshake" position so it's actually just flat. If I don't have the wrist angled down to this extent then the disc will fly nose up for me. My wrist would have to be pretty off plane to introduce OAT with my current grip though.

In forehand if I don't firm up and snap through with the wrist, as well as tighten the grip and pinch hard with the thumb, then the nose gets up. I feel the thumb pinch is pretty important to push the front edge of the wing down through release. I'm much more likely to get a touch of wobble but a significant amount of nose up on a forehand shot if I don't commit to gripping/pinching and snapping through. You have to get a good arm swing though so that the wrist arc will get started from the weight of the disc/arm, so you just need to add to the feeling with the wrist rather than accelerate the disc from nothing with your wrist.

 

[sidewinder22]

I have a similar question about this: I've also been experimenting with the wrist being an active part in the throw vs. the passive (i.e. just letting the disc do most of the work and just utilizing the wrist as a fulcrum/leverage point in the throwing motion).

If the wrist is active in the throw, does that help control/eliminate off-axis-torque? And on the flipside, to me, if the wrist is passive, that may contribute to O.A.T.

I've been practicing a lot this work just focusing on wrist action, and that IMO, is what makes more sense to me. Or am I completely off target here?

Typically easier to first learn to keep it loose so it's the last lever to go. Once you get that sequence figured out you can add to it. To help keep the disc flat and push(least OAT/zero OAT doesn't exist) all the way through the extension there should be some rotation of the arm.

 

[tmoody]

After a few more days practicing I'm getting a lot of benefit from "hammering the nail", which feels like throwing my hand at the imaginary nail. In particular it helps me to feel what Dave Dunipace calls the "steely stop" at the release point.


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[RFrance]

It seems that Steve is explaining that the wrist begins to uncock at the start of the swing (from the power pocket for disc golf and at the start of the downswing for golf) otherwise there isn't enough time to get the wrist to release at the hit or point of impact. To do this requires both an active and passive component. The active component is applying a quick force to start the uncocking of the wrist at the beginning of the swing so the wrist can catch up to the arm at the hit. After the initial force or contraction to get the wrist moving it is passive or relaxed. For us we still need to hold onto the disc as long as possible so what feels like the wrist firming up at the hit might actually be more the result of grip pressure.

He also explains that a lot of the controversy of what is shown in the discussion of lag in golf is due to 2-dimensional video or pictures for a 3-dimensional event. So let's add to the caveat that "the feel is not real" another that "what you see might not be real" either.