"You Might Need New Discs"

[SaROCaM]

I hope that AlphaFoxFL, the OP, will be able to sort out some good advice from this thread. It may be buried in layers of misunderstanding.

Here is an archive of the old DGR site: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/technique.shtml
If you haven't seen this before, there is some good info here. Some things like available discs might be dated at this point.

 

[RoDeO]

There was a general misunderstanding. Until now you gave the impression that you were unable to throw those discs 200 feet without them flipping over, and you kept stating that hyzerflipping was the answer.

Hyzerflipping is one thing, but you can certainly throw those discs without hyzerflipping.

As for Eagle, by pointing out the hyzer angle in combination with your repeated statements on hyzerflipping, you are comparing (not equating 1:1, but speaking comparably like your situation is somewhat similar) your arm speeds. Otherwise why point out the need for hyzer?

He doesn't throw that disc regularly in competition for any number of reasons. Speculate it is because it 1) isn't durable enough 2) already has bagged a D-Line FD, which is comparable 3) his power and the shots he needs to execute in competition require different discs.

But again, that is missing the point. No one is saying you need to throw a DX Leopard for a max distance driver. Everyone is saying that you should be able to get more out of your starter pack type discs than you are getting (especially when all the info available was that you couldn't throw them 200 feet.) Even throwing them past that distance, they aren't just limited to hyzerflips. Can you throw a putter on anhyzer for any appreciable distance? What can you do with those discs at different heights, different lines/trajectories, etc.? All you are doing is throwing hyzerflips and low shots. Which is fine, you gotta focus on one thing at a time. But to dismiss or ignore the possibility of a putter anhyzer shot by pointing out the hyzer needed on a Leopard is leaving a lot on the table. You are still stuck on saying your issue is that you haven't mastered the required hyzer angle. But there are other ways to manipulate the flight of a disc, such as height. Try things other than hyzerflipping. Consider the other shots in the videos referenced earlier, not just the Leopard drives that flipped over. What about the 400' anhyzer putter shot? What can you learn from that? What about the 330' midrange shots? What can you learn from that? Those are all as far or further than your max driver distance. Why is that? It isn't just hyzerflipping. Note that they are higher shots than your "no more than 8 feet" ceiling. Explore that.

In short, there are so many more aspects to throwing (even for distance) than low hyzerflips. Spending some time figuring them out will only help.

That's kind of where I am at. I'm just at that point of experimenting with different angles. I was baffled for a few days back when I changed grip because I thought I was going backwards. Thanks to videos and forums like this one I learned what a "flippy" disc was. I learned about different weights and plastics, etc. That same research led me to buy new discs that better fit where I am at right now. The Mamba disc I have I got based off of information I read from both Innovas website and this forum. I was looking for a max distant driver for my arm speed that went laser straight. The Mamba was what was recommended. And sure enough, from countless hours of field practice, releasing my discs on the same angle and trajectory, I can get the longest straightest shots with the Mamba.

What's interedting to me now is learnibg all these angle manipulations and release heights to get distance. 2 weeks ago I didn't know much about distance gains with hyzer flips and flex anhyzer shots. So now, I'm trying to learn. And this forum is wonderful for learning these things.

 

[SaROCaM]

And this forum is wonderful for learning these things.

Especially when we aren't misunderstanding one another.

I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.

Looking forward to you getting that 350'.

 

[RoDeO]

Especially when we aren't misunderstanding one another.

I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.

Looking forward to you getting that 350'.

Yeah. Im not the best at explaining things. Sorry if I was giving misinformation. I love this sport. I absolutely love watching discs glide through the air. My goal in playing this game is to be able to get out to 400 feet on those occasions when I need it, learn different shots and angles and get to where I can play and have fun for a very long time.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.

This makes me think of something that came for me.

I was talking with a guy yesterday on my home course. The way it is laid out there is pay to park for hole 1, or start on hole 13 if its busy. Pull off and park for free (risking a ticket) near hole 3 and 6. So I'm playing with a friend and we are playing slow. Mulligans and chatting and multiple putts. very casual round. and this guy catches up to us on 17. So we play the last couple holes all together and he's parked down by 3 so I play another couple holes together. He's been playing a year and is pretty mediocre. Like very beginner level but obviously athletic, throwing BH ok but using super US discs to compensate for his form.

I pointed him to SW22 and HUB's youtube pages and talked to him about a lot of the advice on the internet might not be wrong, but it also might not be good. In the moment I had said "use the discs that work for you, whatever makes you happy on the course. A lot of the internet is dead set on using mids and putters to work on form and they're right, but you don't need to do that on the course. Use the disc you like and work for you to play a round and keep it fun. BUT watch those videos and go to a field and throw putters and understable mids to get better if that is what you want."

I think too many people get tied up on improving and playing at the same time and it takes the fun out of playing and doesn't get enough payoff in the improvement catagory. OS crutch discs for a S**T load of OAT is fine on the course, and beat up flippy 14 speed drivers to reach that 280' hole is also fine. If you do work on the side that will change and I think the fun of it will stick around.

Whatever RoDeO is throwing and however it works is fine and I support it on the course.
But through stuff said on this thread I would encourage some video and form critque.

Also super damn jealous of progressing so quick lefty. I have very little Bball history. And lastly over use issue with the right arm probably had to do with deathgrip on the disc too early.

 

[SaROCaM]

In the moment I had said "use the discs that work for you, whatever makes you happy on the course. A lot of the internet is dead set on using mids and putters to work on form and they're right, but you don't need to do that on the course. Use the disc you like and work for you to play a round and keep it fun. BUT watch those videos and go to a field and throw putters and understable mids to get better if that is what you want."

I think too many people get tied up on improving and playing at the same time and it takes the fun out of playing and doesn't get enough payoff in the improvement catagory. OS crutch discs for a S**T load of OAT is fine on the course, and beat up flippy 14 speed drivers to reach that 280' hole is also fine. If you do work on the side that will change and I think the fun of it will stick around.

This was the idea I tried to communicate early in the thread, in post #17 where I talked about two pathways that don't have to be mutually exclusive. Agree that it should be a good mix of the two. Throw what gets good results and/or is fun on the course, but when working on form, disc down and get the basics right.

 

[Keller]

Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!

 

[azplaya25]

Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!

Absolutely love this post and I have followed the exact same strategy. My bag is now 3 DX aviars, 3 DX Rocs, and 3 DX Eagles. I play one of the tougher wooded courses in Austin several times a week with this set up and score very well. I actually went the route of putting a harp or metal flake teebird in my bag and found myself using them quite a bit. I also found myself losing my touch and ability to throw my understable stuff the more I used my utility disc. The last straw was when I torque monkeyed my most beautifully beat Roc over a residential fence on a hole I used to park with it. I took all the beef out of my bag, and took my aviars out to a soccer field and worked on hyzer flipping them bh and fh. Now my game is back and better. I find the dx eagles are probably the best woods golf disc there is , if you can get clean form they will fly any line you want out to 350 - 375 feet


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[SaROCaM]

Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!

I would say that the "throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds" is more for players who are still learning basic throwing and need to throw something different during rounds to keep themselves interested in playing. Not everyone is going to dedicate themselves to being a disc golf "craftsman" so to speak, but everyone who wants to improve should at least spend some foundational time working on the craft. Once you have made progress with the basic discs, throw whatever you want on the course and in field practice. I think that's also what the conclusion is in the "how to build a bag" post.

Agree with the meat of your post. Throwing putters where others are throwing drivers and getting equal or better results is fun for me. Also I made my best FH progress when I learned to FH my beat up Classic Aviars. Prior to that, I had made the classic mistake of only throwing Firebird type discs for learning FH. It is why I strongly believe in being able to throw light/understable discs. If you can learn how to throw those and have the command to make them do different things, then you will have a better understanding of the principles of throwing. This will transfer over to throwing any disc.

As for the "play how you practice" concept, I think it is more of a mental thing. There is a physical component, sure. I reference back to my previous physical activity: powerlifting. When you powerlift, you are going for big lifts. But 80-90% of the time you are training, you are using submaximal weight. But you don't treat them as submaximal weight. You want to have the same setup, focus, etc. on the lighter weights as you do on the big weights. It is a matter of training the basic principles/form as well as the mindset, which will carry over.

I don't think there is only one way to go about things; the important part is building that foundation and understanding. That's the 80% part. Then the 20% part is where individual preferences/differences come into play. Where people run into problems is when they spend all their time focusing on the 20%.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

Well, this thread exploded. For those of you who made comments about my throw progression, tips, advice, and anything else for beginners such as myself, I have read those and thank you for taking the time to post your input...!

Just a little bookmark of my progress: My DX Cobra and DX Shark (my two mids) are getting to the 160-200ft range easily now. The reason for this is something I learned recently about how a slight heizer on release with a understable or stable disc will create a pretty level shot because of the disc naturally levelling itself, and when I throw like this, the discs follow their respective paths for a good distance and are accurate enough that they should leave me with spots on the fairway.

There's something interesting I've noticed recently. My friends, who all play with Dynamic Discs for the most part, have been telling me that I should consider getting a higher speed driver (than my speed 6 Leopard) once I get my shots a little more straightened-out. I then noticed something when I saw a video where someone made the point how the Dynamic Discs' and other starter packs are perfect for beginners; the Dynamic Discs starting pack has the Escape driver (speed 9) whereas the Innova starting pack has a Leopard driver (speed 6). Yes, I know that you can't perfectly compare the flight numbers of one company to another, but I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Currently, I'm still working on getting a better flight path out of my Leopard, but after some trial rounds, the added distance it gives me when I throw it during rounds does actually lower my scores, even when it is a bit off-target.

What do you guys think? Once I get my mid and Leopard shots a little straighter and further, should I even consider getting a high-speed fairway or low-speed distance driver...? It seems like people can't agree on whether people like me "should" or "shouldn't" have even a driver in our hands at all yet, but is it something we should even try out...? Some people worry that beginners will ditch the technique and touch of their mids and putters to solely make their driving game better, but I sure ain't neglecting my mids or putter, because as they say, "the short-game wins games."

I'd love to know what you guys think, and I know I asked this kind of question near the beginning of this thread, but I've gotten a lot of insight, both virtually and in-person, and with all the mixed signals, I'm not sure if "trying" something can be that harmful unless you let it go to your head. So, is your advice the same...?

 

[azplaya25]

It depends on your goals. My advice would be to get a cheetah or dx eagle before moving to an Escape. An escape is a fast, very glidy disc that will probably give you way more distance but will be really hard to control for a newer player. So if you just want to throw as far as possible, jump up to an escape. If you want to learn how to shape lines and get better at golf, I'd go with a speed 7 next


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[RoDeO]

Well, this thread exploded. For those of you who made comments about my throw progression, tips, advice, and anything else for beginners such as myself, I have read those and thank you for taking the time to post your input...!

Just a little bookmark of my progress: My DX Cobra and DX Shark (my two mids) are getting to the 160-200ft range easily now. The reason for this is something I learned recently about how a slight heizer on release with a understable or stable disc will create a pretty level shot because of the disc naturally levelling itself, and when I throw like this, the discs follow their respective paths for a good distance and are accurate enough that they should leave me with spots on the fairway.

There's something interesting I've noticed recently. My friends, who all play with Dynamic Discs for the most part, have been telling me that I should consider getting a higher speed driver (than my speed 6 Leopard) once I get my shots a little more straightened-out. I then noticed something when I saw a video where someone made the point how the Dynamic Discs' and other starter packs are perfect for beginners; the Dynamic Discs starting pack has the Escape driver (speed 9) whereas the Innova starting pack has a Leopard driver (speed 6). Yes, I know that you can't perfectly compare the flight numbers of one company to another, but I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Currently, I'm still working on getting a better flight path out of my Leopard, but after some trial rounds, the added distance it gives me when I throw it during rounds does actually lower my scores, even when it is a bit off-target.

What do you guys think? Once I get my mid and Leopard shots a little straighter and further, should I even consider getting a high-speed fairway or low-speed distance driver...? It seems like people can't agree on whether people like me "should" or "shouldn't" have even a driver in our hands at all yet, but is it something we should even try out...? Some people worry that beginners will ditch the technique and touch of their mids and putters to solely make their driving game better, but I sure ain't neglecting my mids or putter, because as they say, "the short-game wins games."

I'd love to know what you guys think, and I know I asked this kind of question near the beginning of this thread, but I've gotten a lot of insight, both virtually and in-person, and with all the mixed signals, I'm not sure if "trying" something can be that harmful unless you let it go to your head. So, is your advice the same...?

My two cents for what it's worth- you should go out and get a good fairway or distance driver for your armspeed and start throwing it. There is no harm in throwing those discs. They don't mask form problems like some claim. I'm not sure where that philosophy comes from. In fact I have found the opposite. Throwing drivers and carefully watching their flight and what they are doing helps correct mistakes. It wasn't until I started really trying to throw drivers a lot in practice that I gained distance in all my discs including those putters and midrange discs.
One thing people don't mention so much is that the drivers require you to throw correctly or they won't really go far at all, even less than your midrange. Why? Because they are more aerodynamic and require more speed to keep aloft. More speed means you have to make your mechanics smoother and more fluid and thus produce more clean velocity upon release.
I'm not saying go out and but speed 12 discs. I'm saying get a few discs in the 7-9 range that are light. I have 10 drivers in my bag for the whole reason of stopping off at the school to get some extra throws before or after work with. I used to only have 2 drivers and that was too much chasing them down to throw again.
My biggest gains with both control and distance came when I focused on throwing drivers in practice which in reality taught me how to throw correctly. Now I can go to the local course and throw a low speed disc with relative ease and pretty good control on those 250ish feet holes. Before I had to throw all out with no control to get it there. Now it's easy.

 

[SaROCaM]

There's something interesting I've noticed recently. My friends, who all play with Dynamic Discs for the most part, have been telling me that I should consider getting a higher speed driver (than my speed 6 Leopard) once I get my shots a little more straightened-out. I then noticed something when I saw a video where someone made the point how the Dynamic Discs' and other starter packs are perfect for beginners; the Dynamic Discs starting pack has the Escape driver (speed 9) whereas the Innova starting pack has a Leopard driver (speed 6). Yes, I know that you can't perfectly compare the flight numbers of one company to another, but I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Currently, I'm still working on getting a better flight path out of my Leopard, but after some trial rounds, the added distance it gives me when I throw it during rounds does actually lower my scores, even when it is a bit off-target.

What do you guys think? Once I get my mid and Leopard shots a little straighter and further, should I even consider getting a high-speed fairway or low-speed distance driver...? It seems like people can't agree on whether people like me "should" or "shouldn't" have even a driver in our hands at all yet, but is it something we should even try out...? Some people worry that beginners will ditch the technique and touch of their mids and putters to solely make their driving game better, but I sure ain't neglecting my mids or putter, because as they say, "the short-game wins games."

I'd love to know what you guys think, and I know I asked this kind of question near the beginning of this thread, but I've gotten a lot of insight, both virtually and in-person, and with all the mixed signals, I'm not sure if "trying" something can be that harmful unless you let it go to your head. So, is your advice the same...?

Congrats on the progress.

Dynamic Discs doesn't have anything in their lineup that is really comparable to a Leopard AFAIK (maybe a Witness is close, but it looks to be faster and I haven't thrown one so I don't know.)

Speed 9 seems to be as fast as new players can usually handle, so the Dynamic Discs speed 9 driver isn't really that unusual for a starter pack. Especially if the stability is right.

My advice: go ahead and try something faster, even if just for fun and to see how it flies for you now. Something like a Roadrunner/Sidewinder if you stick with Innova, or something similar to that for other manufacturers. (Discraft Heat seems to work in this spot.) But keep learning to control those slower discs.

Here's a good learning program: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595&sid=4ac457e9ca5bd58d9a0c5d1816c69b68

The "how to build a bag" post should help you pick the discs required for this assignment. Note that one disc can fulfill multiple roles (example, your main midrange may also be your most understable disc.)

If you explore more in that old archived forum, there are other "assignments" in threads with the titles that start with "Week 1, Week 2, Week 3," etc. Also the "Bonus Assignment" for thumbers/tomahawks.

But definitely recommend starting with that "Week 1: Line Shaping" assignment. Spend as long as you need/want to on working on line shaping. Maybe even move on to something else, and come back to it after you gain more understanding and develop more skill.

 

[azplaya25]

Well, this thread exploded. For those of you who made comments about my throw progression, tips, advice, and anything else for beginners such as myself, I have read those and thank you for taking the time to post your input...!

Just a little bookmark of my progress: My DX Cobra and DX Shark (my two mids) are getting to the 160-200ft range easily now. The reason for this is something I learned recently about how a slight heizer on release with a understable or stable disc will create a pretty level shot because of the disc naturally levelling itself, and when I throw like this, the discs follow their respective paths for a good distance and are accurate enough that they should leave me with spots on the fairway.

There's something interesting I've noticed recently. My friends, who all play with Dynamic Discs for the most part, have been telling me that I should consider getting a higher speed driver (than my speed 6 Leopard) once I get my shots a little more straightened-out. I then noticed something when I saw a video where someone made the point how the Dynamic Discs' and other starter packs are perfect for beginners; the Dynamic Discs starting pack has the Escape driver (speed 9) whereas the Innova starting pack has a Leopard driver (speed 6). Yes, I know that you can't perfectly compare the flight numbers of one company to another, but I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Currently, I'm still working on getting a better flight path out of my Leopard, but after some trial rounds, the added distance it gives me when I throw it during rounds does actually lower my scores, even when it is a bit off-target.

What do you guys think? Once I get my mid and Leopard shots a little straighter and further, should I even consider getting a high-speed fairway or low-speed distance driver...? It seems like people can't agree on whether people like me "should" or "shouldn't" have even a driver in our hands at all yet, but is it something we should even try out...? Some people worry that beginners will ditch the technique and touch of their mids and putters to solely make their driving game better, but I sure ain't neglecting my mids or putter, because as they say, "the short-game wins games."

I'd love to know what you guys think, and I know I asked this kind of question near the beginning of this thread, but I've gotten a lot of insight, both virtually and in-person, and with all the mixed signals, I'm not sure if "trying" something can be that harmful unless you let it go to your head. So, is your advice the same...?

I really can't recommend a DX eagle enough. I'd recommend two of them, one around 160 grams, the other 175ish for headwinds. Bright colors. Perfect step up from a leopard


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[Rastnav]

I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Starter packs are just gateway drugs to the sport. They aren't necessarily what a given new player needs.

That said, I think you should work on throwing neutral ~170g putters until you get those out to 200 feet, nose down, flat release, flat flight. Until you can do that, you won't get anywhere with the other discs.

 

[CwAlbino]

It really does depend on the goals you have. I have a weird learning progression. I started out when I was 10 with a 150g dx cheetah. I threw only forehand for the next many years. I think it was over 10 years later before I started actually throwing backhand. The discs I really remember during that time were the cheetah, Innova Banshee, Gateway Sabre, Millenium JLS, Innova Beast (when it came out), Gateway Illusion, Discraft Crush, Discraft Flash, Innova Wraith, and then finally the Innova Destroyer. At the best, I was throwing just over 400' with a forehand. I've since worked so much on backhand that I've lost almost all of my previous forehand confidence and ability. What I really want isn't the distance back, but the finesse I used to have. My longest ace to this day is still 395' with a forehand pro destroyer (Hole 1 Bryant Lake).

My forehand game as a child/teen was all about distance, how to throw farther. It kept me interested in the game. When I learned backhand, it was almost exclusively through this forum and youtube videos (Dan Beto drills). I threw putters and midranges. My bag was really hard to choose because I had a very strong forehand but I really wanted to learn backhand. Having things like a beat up star destroyer that I could throw 400' really frustrated me when I couldn't get a Sidewinder 250' backhand. At one point I removed all distance discs from my bag and went exclusively backhand. I was 100% committed to growing my backhand distance. If I wasn't already so invested in disc golf, I don't think I would've enjoyed that route. It was really frustrating and I threw worse scores. My game is now better than it has ever been, even with a lackluster forehand.

As a purist, discing down is the best way. If you are someone that already has a passion for the game, your most consistent gains will be in that fashion. If you're still someone that just wants to enjoy the game while learning, don't be a purist. I have a 7 year old son right now that I'm just starting to teach disc golf. I really really want to make him do drills and learn technique. What I'm going to get in return is a lot of frustration and a dislike of disc golf. He's 7, he wants to throw however he can to make it go far. Adults aren't much different, we need to find a good balance of fun and learning. If buying that new speed 9 Escape keeps you interested and looking for a reason to get on the course, then go buy it. Go out and practice. Throw the Escape, then throw your Leopard right after it. Eventually that Leopard will go just as far as the Escape. Eventually you're going to be reaching for that Leopard instead of the Escape.

 

[SaROCaM]

My two cents for what it's worth- you should go out and get a good fairway or distance driver for your armspeed and start throwing it. There is no harm in throwing those discs. They don't mask form problems like some claim. I'm not sure where that philosophy comes from.

Figure out why people say they mask form problems before saying that they don't, especially when you back it up with a sample size of one.

Here's a start:

If someone is torquing over on a disc, they then think that the disc is too understable and that they need to stable up. One way to stable up is to go up in speed. So now the higher speed/higher stability disc will "eat up" the torque and give a better result, creating a feedback loop of using discs to compensate for form flaws.

Example from earlier in the thread: look at this guy throwing,front side open, poor alignment, going over the top and falling to the right, etc.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwxr2iqKQpU
This is an example of where someone has poor form and is using all these discs to try and get better results, rather than simply improving form.

 

[SaROCaM]

One thing people don't mention so much is that the drivers require you to throw correctly or they won't really go far at all, even less than your midrange. Why? Because they are more aerodynamic and require more speed to keep aloft. More speed means you have to make your mechanics smoother and more fluid and thus produce more clean velocity upon release.

Drivers can go far without throwing correctly. They eat up power, so you can strongarm them. When I was a newer player I threw a Thunderbird 360' and thought that was proof I knew how to throw. All it really proved was that I could generate velocity. You can throw with high velocity without it being really clean.

Contrast this with slower discs. You throw them with high velocity but poor form and they won't fly well. But if your form is really clean you can throw putters farther than many players are throwing their drivers.

 

[SaROCaM]

My two cents for what it's worth- you should go out and get a good fairway or distance driver for your armspeed and start throwing it.

This part is where people run into issues. So yes, I agree that a proper disc is worth trying out. But my previous point is to highlight that people often get it wrong for various reasons and end up with something more than they can handle.

I'm saying get a few discs in the 7-9 range that are light. I have 10 drivers in my bag for the whole reason of stopping off at the school to get some extra throws before or after work with. I used to only have 2 drivers and that was too much chasing them down to throw again.

It is indeed useful to have multiples.

 

[R-Ogre]

Of course you need new discs. Buy ALL the discs! Shiny new plastic is half the fun of this hobby.