[Innova] Disc Stability & Weight/Plastic Comparison

[dmoore1998]

Just curious if anyone knows how some of the Innova plastics and weights compare in terms of similar stability?

For example:

I throw the same disc in Halo Star, Champion, Star, and Gstar. All have pretty clearly different stabilities. If I throw a 175g GStar driver, anyone know what weight of Star would be roughly the same in terms of stability/flight path? Same for 175g Star to Champ, and 175g Champ to Halo Star (I know the Halo stuff gets to be all over the place sometimes).

I bag a ton of the same driver in so many weights and plastics, but I'd love a rough estimate (or an exact number would be even better if some math folks actually know) so that I don't have to go out and throw a billion times with each disc trying to gauge the differences.

On a separate but related note...how much of a weight gap is reasonable to bag? I'm definitely not bagging a 175g and a 173g or anything. 5g difference? 10? At what point does the weight impact the flight in a meaningful way? Just looking for opinions, so hard to judge my own throws and what's actually different vs "I just threw that one really well, or with a different angle, etc".

 

[JeCroisQue]

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work like that. Yes, in terms of stability for the standard Innova plastic, it tends to go Metal Flake, Champ Glo, Champion, Star, GStar, DX, but that is just a general rule of thumb. Stability is often affected by weight, but not all the time unless you really start to drop weight like 10-15 G. However, it is not an exact science, especially when trying to compare between plastics and runs.

Factors like Dome and PLH (parting line height) can affect stability, not to mention different runs can exhibit different stabilities. If we take the Teebird for example (I have thrown almost every version for over a decade) a 2017 Jen Allen color glow is super beefy for a TB, where the 18's were much straighter comparitively. I have thrown 160's Star Avery Teebirds that flew closer to a Firebird than my 12x or 11x Teebirds. Brinsters we're always more stable than a stock champ Teebird as well.

So, unfortunately, there is no real answer to your question. This is why a lot of players when they find a run, plastic, mold they like tend to buy stacks of them at a time. It is relatively unpredictable whether or not the next version will fly exactly the same.

 

[dmoore1998]

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work like that. Yes, in terms of stability for the standard Innova plastic, it tends to go Metal Flake, Champ Glo, Champion, Star, GStar, DX, but that is just a general rule of thumb. Stability is often affected by weight, but not all the time unless you really start to drop weight like 10-15 G. However, it is not an exact science, especially when trying to compare between plastics and runs.

Factors like Dome and PLH (parting line height) can affect stability, not to mention different runs can exhibit different stabilities. If we take the Teebird for example (I have thrown almost every version for over a decade) a 2017 Jen Allen color glow is super beefy for a TB, where the 18's were much straighter comparitively. I have thrown 160's Star Avery Teebirds that flew closer to a Firebird than my 12x or 11x Teebirds. Brinsters we're always more stable than a stock champ Teebird as well.

So, unfortunately, there is no real answer to your question. This is why a lot of players when they find a run, plastic, mold they like tend to buy stacks of them at a time. It is relatively unpredictable whether or not the next version will fly exactly the same.

Kind of what I expected to hear (either that or rote opinion, which is also fine). I feel like my current discs have a pretty different stability between plastics, but on any given day/time/throw the conditions are different, my arm is different, my throw is different, etc. Mostly I'm trying to stop buying so many discs! So if I'm throwing a 170 star, and I want something less stable, was hoping to get an idea of what other people do if they're going to buy the same in a gstar.

Along the same lines, it FEELS like my 170 star is quite a bit less stable than my 175 star...but when I'm throwing them together it's usually a 2nd practice throw because something went wrong on the first one, so I'm sure I'm also making subconscious physical adjustments as well. If left to my own obsessive/compulsive devices I'd end up with every possible plastic/weight/dome combination I could find...I'm trying to "hunt smart" a bit for meaningful changes.

 

[JeCroisQue]

Kind of what I expected to hear (either that or rote opinion, which is also fine). I feel like my current discs have a pretty different stability between plastics, but on any given day/time/throw the conditions are different, my arm is different, my throw is different, etc. Mostly I'm trying to stop buying so many discs! So if I'm throwing a 170 star, and I want something less stable, was hoping to get an idea of what other people do if they're going to buy the same in a gstar.

Along the same lines, it FEELS like my 170 star is quite a bit less stable than my 175 star...but when I'm throwing them together it's usually a 2nd practice throw because something went wrong on the first one, so I'm sure I'm also making subconscious physical adjustments as well. If left to my own obsessive/compulsive devices I'd end up with every possible plastic/weight/dome combination I could find...I'm trying to "hunt smart" a bit for meaningful changes.

So, the best way to do this is to cycle discs. This is a very common tactic that a lot of players use to achieve the results you are looking for. It basically involves using the wear pattern to achieve different flights. This is a much more reliable way to achieve your desired result and is very commonly seen with the innova Roc or Destroyer.

If you are not familiar, you basically find a run of discs you like, then buy 5-10 of the same ones. Stick 1 or two in your bag, then as you play more, hit trees, rocks etc, the discs will beat in and begin to fly straighter. Once this happens, you throw one of your fresh discs in your bag and boom, you have a stable, overstable, and straight version that all feel the exact same. Eventually you will have a spectrum of the same mold that all feel identical but fly differently.

I'll use the teebird/fairway slot as an example again. I would buy 5 12x Teebirds, and then pair it with a champ leopard at first. With a champ teebird and a champ Leo, I have slightly overstable and slightly understable covered. Once the two discs wear in the Teebird will start to fly straight and the Leo will begin to turn more, then I put in a fresh teebird. Eventually after 2-3 rounds of this, I would take out the Leo, and I have 4-5 champ Teebirds all the same weight and feel that all fly completely different from slightly overstable to full turnover/roller.

 

[dmoore1998]

So, the best way to do this is to cycle discs. This is a very common tactic that a lot of players use to achieve the results you are looking for. It basically involves using the wear pattern to achieve different flights. This is a much more reliable way to achieve your desired result and is very commonly seen with the innova Roc or Destroyer.

If you are not familiar, you basically find a run of discs you like, then buy 5-10 of the same ones. Stick 1 or two in your bag, then as you play more, hit trees, rocks etc, the discs will beat in and begin to fly straighter. Once this happens, you throw one of your fresh discs in your bag and boom, you have a stable, overstable, and straight version that all feel the exact same. Eventually you will have a spectrum of the same mold that all feel identical but fly differently.

I'll use the teebird/fairway slot as an example again. I would buy 5 12x Teebirds, and then pair it with a champ leopard at first. With a champ teebird and a champ Leo, I have slightly overstable and slightly understable covered. Once the two discs wear in the Teebird will start to fly straight and the Leo will begin to turn more, then I put in a fresh teebird. Eventually after 2-3 rounds of this, I would take out the Leo, and I have 4-5 champ Teebirds all the same weight and feel that all fly completely different from slightly overstable to full turnover/roller.

I've considered cycling (I used to have no choice before I took 15-20 years off when most things were DX). I play a good deal of open courses though, and with how good premium plastics seem to be these days...I'll be a few years away from having a spectrum of the same disc/weight/mold that fly significantly differently (and I'd prefer not to spend my free time slamming discs into concrete, or against a brick wall, or something similar lol).

So then I got to the point of either trying to mix/match companies...or go with weight/plastic differences. Different companies/molds are MOSTLY out...I've tried...but it seems like I've gotta throw about everything to get an idea since the flight numbers even across molds in the same company aren't great...much less between companies.

My system now isn't "bad" per se...it works kind of ok for me. I'm just always thinking maybe I've got far too much overlap simply dropping 5g in weight and thinking it flies differently.

 

[JeCroisQue]

I've considered cycling (I used to have no choice before I took 15-20 years off when most things were DX). I play a good deal of open courses though, and with how good premium plastics seem to be these days...I'll be a few years away from having a spectrum of the same disc/weight/mold that fly significantly differently (and I'd prefer not to spend my free time slamming discs into concrete, or against a brick wall, or something similar lol).

So then I got to the point of either trying to mix/match companies...or go with weight/plastic differences. Different companies/molds are MOSTLY out...I've tried...but it seems like I've gotta throw about everything to get an idea since the flight numbers even across molds in the same company aren't great...much less between companies.

My system now isn't "bad" per se...it works kind of ok for me. I'm just always thinking maybe I've got far too much overlap simply dropping 5g in weight and thinking it flies differently.

I've taken some big chunks of years off too (been playing since 2001 on and off). It can be overwhelming to wrap your head around just how big the sport is and how many discs/manufacturers there are after some time off. What disc/discs in particular are you looking to achieve this result for…

I do subscribe to the idea of letting others do the work for you. I often look on the bay for beat in versions of what I throw. It's usually not hard to find depending on what you are looking for. It's a bit of a risk, but when you're buying used, especially if you can find a lot, you can get better deals too.

 

[aphilso1]

I've considered cycling (I used to have no choice before I took 15-20 years off when most things were DX). I play a good deal of open courses though, and with how good premium plastics seem to be these days...I'll be a few years away from having a spectrum of the same disc/weight/mold that fly significantly differently (and I'd prefer not to spend my free time slamming discs into concrete, or against a brick wall, or something similar lol).

So then I got to the point of either trying to mix/match companies...or go with weight/plastic differences. Different companies/molds are MOSTLY out...I've tried...but it seems like I've gotta throw about everything to get an idea since the flight numbers even across molds in the same company aren't great...much less between companies.

My system now isn't "bad" per se...it works kind of ok for me. I'm just always thinking maybe I've got far too much overlap simply dropping 5g in weight and thinking it flies differently.

I agree that different brands have widely different flight ratings. I'd recommend checking out the Bag Suggestions forum. See if you can find people who throws a similar distance as you, and look at what they bag. Ask them questions about how they use different discs. That should overcome the issue of mixing brands. For example, I throw a Pipeline as my workhorse fairway driver mold, and would label it 8/6/-1.5/2 at my arm speed even though DGA gives it a turn rating of 0. Other people with more power even use it as their understable bookend. Point being, flight ratings can be way off but if you find someone who throws like you then you can comfortably mix brands.

 

[dmoore1998]

I've taken some big chunks of years off too (been playing since 2001 on and off). It can be overwhelming to wrap your head around just how big the sport is and how many discs/manufacturers there are after some time off. What disc/discs in particular are you looking to achieve this result for…

I do subscribe to the idea of letting others do the work for you. I often look on the bay for beat in versions of what I throw. It's usually not hard to find depending on what you are looking for. It's a bit of a risk, but when you're buying used, especially if you can find a lot, you can get better deals too.

Shrykes. I've kind of zeroed in on that mold as being the mold that feels the best and I consistently throw the furthest with the most control. I've also found that throwing something lighter (like a 165 star) is more consistently turning right and getting distance than something like a Mamba which seems super finnicky on my release. I've also found that my control gets a lot better when I'm throwing the same mold over and over again, rather than jumping around all over the place in molds for each line.

I'm buying used stuff when I can, but that also seems like such a crap-shoot as to just how beaten in a disc is (I really love the halo star Shrykes, tried to buy some beaten-in ones, but they're still super OS). On the one hand I see that as "great, all this amazing premium plastic is going to hold up"...on the other hand it is "gotta find something you like fresh out of the box, because beating it in is going to take too long".