Do you play in a random doubles league?

[1978]

Our 4 doubles leagues, Club, Glow, Womens, and "after" Chuckers are all Random Draw

In my glow league I will let 2 friends play on the same card, but not same team and Father Daughter/Son teams be pre-formed. Usually these teams are just for fun and it doesnt hurt the other players.

Script ran something with points and divisions even though it was doubles so.. he might be better to explain that version.

 

[JoshEpoo]

I disagree, if I have two piles of cards and I shuffle them up and half the group pulls from one pile and half the group pulls from the other pile. they are still picking a number at random. It's just a smaller numer of cards they are pulling from. What's different is that you no longer have two really good players on the same team.

I don't think that's a bad way to organize your league, I'm just nitpicking semantics. If I know there is 0% chance that I will end up playing with half of the players, that is not random.

I am one of the guys who is on the cusp of A-B so I don't like dividing players this way. If I go in the B pool and get paired with a decent A player, we will likely win and people may or may not give me grief for going into the lower pool. If I go A pool (a scenario which is much more likely for 940-970 players) and get paired with one of the bottom half B players, there's very little chance we win if there are many strong open players (990+) there.

Obviously I'm biased towards a system that will allow me the best chance for fun. If you're trying to be more inclusive with your league and attract more new players, then your system can be a good way to grow the group. It will probably scare off some of the "A players" too though, since they know they won't be paired with players who are the same skill level as them. It also requires that you divide the group in half, which can be problematic if you have just a few dominant A players and a large group of B players, some of whom will be forced into the A pool and stand little chance of winning, because they know they won't ever draw a "good" partner.

 

[joesouthfla]

I don't think that's a bad way to organize your league, I'm just nitpicking semantics. If I know there is 0% chance that I will end up playing with half of the players, that is not random.

I am one of the guys who is on the cusp of A-B so I don't like dividing players this way. If I go in the B pool and get paired with a decent A player, we will likely win and people may or may not give me grief for going into the lower pool. If I go A pool (a scenario which is much more likely for 940-970 players) and get paired with one of the bottom half B players, there's very little chance we win if there are many strong open players (990+) there.

Obviously I'm biased towards a system that will allow me the best chance for fun. If you're trying to be more inclusive with your league and attract more new players, then your system can be a good way to grow the group. It will probably scare off some of the "A players" too though, since they know they won't be paired with players who are the same skill level as them. It also requires that you divide the group in half, which can be problematic if you have just a few dominant A players and a large group of B players, some of whom will be forced into the A pool and stand little chance of winning, because they know they won't ever draw a "good" partner.

Good response, I'm not thinking that I would need to split everyone that is there into two separate groups. What I would do is place the two piles of cards out and say Veterens/good players pull from one pile everyone else pull from the second pile. If there is only 6 out of 20 good players that day then only 6 cards will get drawn. the leftover cards are mixed back with the average player cards. As long as two really good players do not draw the same number you are good to go. if a player is not positive which group they belong in they should draw from B. I think most players will know what pile to pick from. you might have a player or two try to bag but I suspect peer pressure will drive them to the right pile.
I spoke to 3 regular league players recently about this and was quite surprised about how they felt about this. One was an average player who after careful explanation still does not believe the better player has an unfair advantage and would not want to change. A second regular player I spoke to understood the math but was afraid to upset the cart. The third player which is an advanced player understood and was fully supportive of a change.
We strive for fairness in our tournaments by putting people in different divisions, why not strive for fairness during leagues?

 

[kenjiac]

I run 2 local doubles league. We do A/B/C pools. A = AM1 and up B = Good Rec and AM2 C = Mid Rec and below. I use #'d poker chips to draw teams. The way I make teams the amount of players in each pool doesn't matter. I take my list of players and mark them as A, B, or C. Say i have 28 players on a night 5 A's 14 B's 9 C's. I use chips 1-14 in red and blue. 1-5 red goes in the bag for the A's to draw then 1-9 blue goes in the bag for C's to draw then 6-14 red & 10-14 blue goes in for the B's to draw. Doing it like this never lets there be A/A or C/C team and forces A/C pairings as much as possible while still keeping it pretty random and fair.

 

[NOSteveLA]

We draw cards...nobody complains if they are stuck with an inexperienced player.
It is random draw doubles and best shot format, I think it does give am players a bit more confidence
when shooting with a pro or advanced player after they get over being so nervous . I learned alot playing
in different random draw leagues in just over a years time . Most pros are more than helpful and you
get to watch them and thier technique in a comfortable birdseye setting.I wouldnt be able to play half
my game w/out watching and learning from those who are better than myself.It has been really beneficial to me
and quite a few other players I know.

 

[joesouthfla]

I run 2 local doubles league. We do A/B/C pools. A = AM1 and up B = Good Rec and AM2 C = Mid Rec and below. I use #'d poker chips to draw teams. The way I make teams the amount of players in each pool doesn't matter. I take my list of players and mark them as A, B, or C. Say i have 28 players on a night 5 A's 14 B's 9 C's. I use chips 1-14 in red and blue. 1-5 red goes in the bag for the A's to draw then 1-9 blue goes in the bag for C's to draw then 6-14 red & 10-14 blue goes in for the B's to draw. Doing it like this never lets there be A/A or C/C team and forces A/C pairings as much as possible while still keeping it pretty random and fair.

I like it, with my suggestion you eliminate the AA, but not BB. Do players mind you being the one assigning them to A,B,C?

 

[mashnut]

If you keep track of previous results, you can use a system to move people up or down. The league I play with multiple pools moves up the top one or two from the C and B pools after the spring, summer and fall seasons and moves down people stuck at the bottom of a pool consistently.

 

[joesouthfla]

We draw cards...nobody complains if they are stuck with an inexperienced player.
It is random draw doubles and best shot format, I think it does give am players a bit more confidence
when shooting with a pro or advanced player after they get over being so nervous . I learned alot playing
in different random draw leagues in just over a years time . Most pros are more than helpful and you
get to watch them and thier technique in a comfortable birdseye setting.I wouldnt be able to play half
my game w/out watching and learning from those who are better than myself.It has been really beneficial to me
and quite a few other players I know.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting the better players draw then play amongst themselves. Lets say a really good player pulls the number 3 from his pile he will then have as a partner the average player who draws the 3 from the other pile. As a matter of fact the average player is now able to have a good player as a partner much more often then before.

 

[kenjiac]

I like it, with my suggestion you eliminate the AA, but not BB. Do players mind you being the one assigning them to A,B,C?

No players are pretty cool about it and feel proud when their skills increase and I move them up to a higher pool.

 

[joesouthfla]

I really appreciate all the responses. It was very informative.

 

[the_pwnerator]

No, but I would love to...

 

[ejvogie]

Do players mind you being the one assigning them to A,B,C?

If you're the TD, it doesn't really matter if they mind. Sure, you may get an out of towner or two a week, so you have to take their word on their skill level, but everyone else you probably know where they stand. If they don't like where you've put them, give their money back (BEFORE you draw) and let them play a casual round...by themselves.

 

[Jukeshoe]

We draw cards...nobody complains if they are stuck with an inexperienced player.
It is random draw doubles and best shot format, I think it does give am players a bit more confidence
when shooting with a pro or advanced player after they get over being so nervous . I learned alot playing
in different random draw leagues in just over a years time . Most pros are more than helpful and you
get to watch them and thier technique in a comfortable birdseye setting.I wouldnt be able to play half
my game w/out watching and learning from those who are better than myself.It has been really beneficial to me
and quite a few other players I know.

^2nd this emotion.

 

[jrawk]

yeah around here one of the doubles leagues does totally random draw, non-handicapped. and each week the same people win.

also when the league first started a ton of people would show up. once the novice or intermediate players found out what happens in that format they stopped showing up. people get sick of donating that night's beer money to the top guys every week.

so now maybe 10-12 guys show up and its usually the same guys who still win. its fun, dont get me wrong, but it does get a little tedious.

This is what started happening for us, but we got rid of the payouts altogether, and instead removed the cap on the ace pot. Our course has 3 basket locations per hole, so we keep 6 in short, 6 in medium, 6 in long. So there is always that 6 opportunities to ace. Our random doubles ace pot is now up to $250 and NOBODY skips out anymore.

 

[LeBryson James]

We do a weekly doubles at my home coarse and we don't divide it up into divisions. Mainly because there isn't a lot of people to show up. Usually 6. But there are about 3 regulars that are above everyone else and if they all get separated then we know it is going to be a fun/competitive round but if the good guys get paired we know they are going to win. But it is still fun to fellowship playing the Sport of Disc golf!

 

[optidiscic]

there are times two top guys get paired together, it happens, and no one pitches a bitch over it.

Nope but a ton of new players will quietly stop coming out....it happens

 

[optidiscic]

We do randomish doubles....split the players into 2 pools and randomly select from there. Cali guy is always A pool cause B pool Cali just sucks. Our numbers are always good and I attribute it to the fact that the best 2 players and worst 2 players can never be paired together.....our scores are always competitive. If theres some debate about middling players I flip to determine which pool they end up in.

 

[aardvarkious]

We usually get ~10 guys. Some weeks we have all pretty decent players, in which case we do it truly random. Sometimes we have a new guy, in which case I volunteer to go with them (I am the best player, but that isn't saying much about my abilities). Sometimes we get a few new guys, in which case we just talk it out and figure the most competitive teams we can.

Obviously we are a unique group to be able to make this work well, and hopefully we grow to the point next year where this is impossible. But we just got baskets in a week ago, so there hasn't been much new blood yet and any new blood is friends with someone. So it has been easy.

 

[simpletwist]

We do 2 completely different levels. Open and Am. Our league is a traveling league so generally the Open players play a different course from the Ams. A few times during our 22 week season we play combined. But the teams are still separate. The difference is an Open pair tees off with an Am pair.

Our End of the Year event is played like the combined events. We have 2 separate payouts. The ace pool is open to everyone who pays. And there are combined and separate CTPs.

Works in WNY.

 

[aggreen]

We do randomish doubles....split the players into 2 pools and randomly select from there. Cali guy is always A pool cause B pool Cali just sucks. Our numbers are always good and I attribute it to the fact that the best 2 players and worst 2 players can never be paired together.....our scores are always competitive. If theres some debate about middling players I flip to determine which pool they end up in.

^i like this - randomish. In our summer dubs, it was random. Starting this fall/winter in our glow dubs league, I am planning on doing something like this. I was going to use the PDGA divisions - Open, Advanced, Intermediate, Rec - based on where they normally compete in tourneys. Then a random draw from each division and they are paired Pro/Rec, Adv/Int.

Not mentioned in the posts is how you handle cali (although that is a different topic) - our cali rules for summer dubs were different than many other local clubs. 2 drives from the tee and each lie, except in the circle of the pin. The problem with this is if you get a 990+ rated player playing cali, they essentially are two 990 rated players. The plan in glow dubs, is to only give 1 extra throw per hole to Pro and Adv and the before mentioned cali rules (2 throws each drive and lie) to Int and Rec players. Sorry to go off on a tangent...boring conference call.