[Drivers] Newer player disc advice leopard vs leopard 3 vs valkyrie

[SilentExodus04]

Hey everyone, first time poster here.

I've been reading through posts for about an hour now and I want to get some advice on my specific situation now that I think I have an idea what I want to do. I've been playing for about 3-6 months now. Driving about 200-250 feet (RHBH) I'd say depending on if my form is good or not that throw and depending on disc choice.

Started with the dx leopard 150g in the starter pack that I soon began to overpower. Switched to a very overstable discmania FD C-line 170g and was happy with the extra control/consistency until I realized it's way too overstable and I was losing distance because I can't throw it fast enough and it was messing up my form. Went back to using my leopard and found that I can get a really nice S curve out of it and go slightly farther than my fd c-line so committed to trying to learn how to throw the dx leopard 150 with less power to get a good hyzer flip. I think the DX leopard is too understable now that it's worn in, plus i'm just generally getting more power in my throws. I also noticed a big difference in the weight as the 150g leopard is way easier to throw due to the light weight. By the end of a 18 hole course, those 170g discs feel pretty heavy to me and my form pays the price.

I got a few discs to try:
165 champ beast - too overstable, never flips and just hyzers out to the left even if I try to throw it flat. I think I'll need to grow into this one later.

171 dx valkyrie - Flies pretty well, started to get it to hyzer flip for me slightly after the 2nd round using it, but still doesn't feel like I'm getting as much distance on average as I did with the dx 150 leopard. Not sure if it's because of the extra weight? It was all they had at the store for Valkyries at the time.

170 champ valk - I tried my friends disc and this feels way more overstable than my dx valk, not able to get it to flip into a nice S curve, just turns to the left at the end.

I really like how the DX Valk flies, because it reminds me of the leopard if I put more energy into the throw, but still feels too heavy for me so either I'm not ready for a speed 9, or the extra weight is a problem.

I'm considering getting one of the following as a step up for my leopard because I know I should be able to get 300ft out of them, but I think mine is too beat in as a dx to keep using the one I have.

Options:
Pro Leopard - can get it as low as 150g to match what my old leopard feels like but hopefully a little more stable?
Leopard 3 - not sure what plastic to get, I've heard G* is a little less stable than the other 2 types so maybe that so I can get a nice S curve out of it but put slightly more power into it without it going to the ground?
DX Valk - but a lower weight like 150g to see if the lighter weight is easier on me since my form gets worse the more power I add to compensate?

Thanks for taking the time to read this. After buying some new discs i realized I'm really not ready for those 10+ speeds, and I need to go back to basics with lower speed and potentially lighter weight discs.

 

[tbird888]

I would go for a heavier Pro Leopard (165-170). It'll more than likely start a little more overstable than you want but will mellow with a little use and season into an old friend.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Pro leopard. I ignored this disc for way too long in my search for a straight shooting, can do whatever I want, easy distance fairway. I've been throwing a 170g the past few months and it is fantastic. If you like the DX leopard but want a little more stability out of it it's worth a try. If you want a little more overstability than that even, try a champ leopard. For your power and distance, it's hard to beat a Leo.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Unless you have some physical limitations/handicaps/injuries then the weight isn't the issue. You're just not getting the discs up to speed to realize their true flight potential. That's normal, and you'll get there with practice and form improvement.

If I were you I would keep the DX Valk and DX Leopard. Keep working with the Valk and using it as a benchmark, and the DX Leopard for turnover lines. If you want something between them, a Pro Leopard in the mid-160s would be a solid choice, but I would actually recommend that you grab yourself a 170ish midrange and putter of your choosing to build from. They'll go as far or farther than your current options most likely. Comet, Fuse, Mako3...something neutral/stable to start.

 

[SD86]

Surprised to hear that a 171g Valkyrie feels 'heavy'; I wonder if it's actually heavier than it says.

Having said that, some people have a certain weight range preference. Mine is in the upper 160s, especially for faster discs. If your DX Valk seems heavy to you, you might order a lighter weight DX Valk online and see if it works out better for you.

 

[Stable]

I would go for a heavier Pro Leopard (165-170). It'll more than likely start a little more overstable than you want but will mellow with a little use and season into an old friend.

Agree. Don't go any faster than a Leopard. Pro plastic sounds just right & I think you'd be ok at max weight.

Spend time in a field with throwing putters. My personal recommendation is a Prodigy 400g PA4. Learn to power into a hyzer flip with this disc. Play entire rounds with it. Figure out how to engage your legs and core then onward to mids & fairway drivers. Take this advice and dominate your local enemies. I've planted the seeds.

 

[SilentExodus04]

@Broken Shoulder, interesting you mention the Mako3. I also just got a Star Mako3 176g for christmas and have been trying to figure that bad boy out for upshots and starting to get the hang of it. It's my only mid range since I lost my old one that was one of the starter set 150gs, I think a shark? The only thing I don't like about it is the rim/grip seems way different than my drivers for the power grip I use for driving.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Keep working it, both approaches and driving. And don't be afraid to experiment with a fan grip or something else.
Nothing like throwing a 250' or longer rope with a mid that barely turns or fades.

 

[zontar]

with what you're able to throw now, I'd consider some mids like the Mako3. great complement to the Leo

 

[Myke566]

@Broken Shoulder, interesting you mention the Mako3. I also just got a Star Mako3 176g for christmas and have been trying to figure that bad boy out for upshots and starting to get the hang of it. It's my only mid range since I lost my old one that was one of the starter set 150gs, I think a shark? The only thing I don't like about it is the rim/grip seems way different than my drivers for the power grip I use for driving.

I wouldn't try to power grip a Mako3 or any mids for that matter. Try using a hybrid/fan grip when throwing your mids. If you need more power, throw a driver. Mako3 is probably my favorite disc to throw. I use a hybrid fan grip where my index finger and pinky finger are on the rim and my middle and ring finger are on the plate. Try it out!

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I do index and middle on the plate and ring pinky on the rim for most approaches that are touchy. Power grip on all shots for distance.

 

[Keller]

I'm going to buck the trend here and go against the Leopard.

From my own personal experience, I think a DX Cheetah around 170gr and/or a Millennium Polaris LS in the mid to upper 160's are better. I followed the Leopard advise when I started, but I just never clicked with them. Then on a suggestion I started throwing the Cheetah, for me, it was much easier to control, easier to hyzer flip and goes just as far as a Leopard. I have since moved to the PLS but still bag a Cheetah too and all of my Leopards are gathering dust in the basement.

As far as the mid goes, Mako3 is fine, but they are not very good line shaping discs. I would suggest a Roc/Shark/Buzz (which ever feels better) and a Comet in elite-X plastic, all in the mid to upper 170s. And learn to throw them with some sort of fan, stacked or Klimo grip.

This is a good thread to read through. It might help.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790

Best of luck

 

[lines]

My bag will never be without a star leopard.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

For what it's worth, leo3 has great distance potential. I was watching the shark bite open or something on CCDG YouTube last night and saw drew Gibson park a 460 some foot hole on damn near a laser beam line with one. Of course that's drew Gibson, but it really highlights that proper form can put discs, even slower fairways like a Leo3 out plenty far.

 

[ThomasOrion]

What are you actually looking for? A Driver ? Or a whole set that will be good for beginner?

If so here's my advice - Go with slightly understable discs, not super understable because then you may get too used to that and over compensate - Use weights from 160-170g Heavier are nice but can be hard to get moving when new to the sport, I'd say 5 discs is all you need right now

1- All around Driver
2-All around midrange
3-All around putter
4-Really understable disc
5-Fairly overstable disc

Here are some options, just need 1 in each category

1- Innova Roadrunner, Sidewinder - Axiom Insanity - MVP Volt (speed 7 disc but goes far) - Legacy Patriot

2- Axiom Alias - Innova Atlas , Mako3 - Discraft Buzzz SS , Meteor - Prodigy M4

3- Literally ANY putter - just get something that's slightly understable - Prodigy Pa4, Pa3 - Gateway Magic - Discraft Magnet - really whatever you want just not super understable not super overstable

4- Lat64 Diamond - its a fairway driver but it is nice and turns over easily - Otherwise a lightweight or base plastic understable midrange like a Prodigy 300 M4 , lightweight mids

5- MVP Resistor - Innova Firebird - Dynamic Discs Felon, XXX - Anything that's a speed 6-9 that is really Overstable


With these 5 discs you can pretty much handle any type of shot . Ask around, talk with store ppl that are cool and trial and error.

and if you don't want options and just want me to say GET THIS
here:
1- Axiom Insanity (Plasma or Neutron Plastic - weights 160-170)
2- Prodigy M4 (400G plastic 160-170g)
3- Prodigy Pa4 (300 plastic 165-175g)

4- Lat64 Diamond (weights are usually 150's makes it easier to turn)
5- MVP Resistor (Any plastic Any weight)

 

[Badger45]

I'd echo the sentiments of a Pro Leopard. They're fantastic drivers and will beat into a good spot fairly quickly, but won't get trashed as fast as a DX.

A Gazelle or Cheetah could fit your slightly more overstable slot, as well.

 

[dysmike]

I don't know if I'd recommend an Insanity. They're fine discs, but a bit fast for someone throwing 250ft.

 

[ThomasOrion]

I don't know if I'd recommend an Insanity. They're fine discs, but a bit fast for someone throwing 250ft.

I hear ya there - For Max distance beginner its not bad, its a thin rimmed driver and is pretty fast but controllable.

may use it in combo with a speed 7 driver just for fun

 

[SilentExodus04]

Thanks for the responses guys.

So I think I want to stick with the Innova brand, should have mentioned that in the original post. I want something that's easy to throw and kind of an in between for the gap from DX leopard -> DX Valkyrie. I think the Valk will be the disc i move into fairly quickly, but I still think I could do better if I went with a slower disc like the leo right now.

I went out and did some field practice yesterday for I think the first time ever, normally just play on my local course. It was pretty eye opening to just be able to toss all my discs and compare them side by side. I've come to the conclusion that I need to stick in the 160-175g range for pretty much everything because every time I tried to switch to my 150 discs I would pull them to the right unless i really tried to lay off the power (Tried both my dx leo 150 and my dx aviar 150 and both ended up performing about the same and were going to the right more than I wanted). I think that's because I had been used to throwing 170s for a while now until I went back to try the leo again. It's just hard to get my arm used to two different disc weights when throwing one and then switching to a diff weighted one. I think for consistency sake I need all my discs in the 160+ range to help improve my form. Hadn't really thought of this but it was messing with my release going between the two weights.

I also took about half my field practice time and devoted it to JUST throwing my star aviar 170 and my star mako3 176 and I could notice a big difference in my consistency with them by the end of the session. What was really crazy to me is that I was throwing them only about 10-30 feet shorter than my leo or my valk if I was throwing at about 80% power. If I try to go 100% power I was having lots of consistency problems and pulling the disc to the right too much.

I'm going to keep the field practice up with the putters and mids to get those better and work on my form and then go back and get a new driver in a week or so to fill that gap I was talking about once I've had some more time to work on my distance and consistency with the putters/mids. I also toss the Valk every once in a while to see the difference, which I can almost always throw the valk farther if I release it on the right angle, I still can't quite hyzer flip it but I can get it to S a little bit if i release it flat.

 

[SilentExodus04]

Alright... I went to my local shop and bought a Star Leopard 166g. I was really close to getting a Pro which seemed like it had a thinner disc profile, but i liked the grip of star and I figured I might be using this for a while and don't want it to turn into a turnover machine like my last Leo, so I went with Star which should last longer and be slightly more stable, which hopefully is what I need.

I'm going to go do some more field practice later today to try the Star Leo 166 out.

I've been doing more field work too, and I realized i can throw nearly as far with a standstill, and more consistently. I think for the next month or two i'm going to have to just do stand still throws and work on shifting my weight from back to front using my lower body. I've been having problems gripping everything and throwing to the right if i try to do any kind of walk up or X step. I'm hoping after a while of doing a standstill and getting my form good, I can start adding in an X step again.

With an X step I only get an extra 20-50 feet, and half the time i grip lock it so much i end up releasing way right negating any of those extra feet gains.

This forum is great, love reading and posting here and seeing what you guys have to say about this stuff as I'm getting more into it every day