Obsessive throwing just over a year and 325' - looking to improve form!

[coodaj]

https://youtu.be/HLJbf6eS58g

I started playing in November of 2018. I'm obsessed and play pretty much every day. Typically I throw ~325'. Recently focusing on keeping my off arm tucked is adding 25 feet or so to that. Mostly throwing an MVP Wave in these clips.

The most frustrating thing is that i feel that people with worse form than me in my play group sometimes throw farther.

I frequent Reddit, and when I post a form check, the primary critique ppl point out is that I'm not bracing correctly. I've watched so many YouTube videos (seabas22, heavydisc, Danny, Simon and TONS of others) and read a bunch of posts on form, but something is still not clicking where I've hit a wall (I've been throwing this distance for like 6 months). One-leg type drills seem to be the most common suggestion, which do help, but then when I add the x-step I'm back to the same result; sort of falling forward after I release the disc. When I try to focus on really stopping on my plant foot, I usually end up with a sore knee, so I'm doing something incorrect in that regard.

What's the MAIN THING I need to work on and get down really well before focusing on something else?

Brace/weight shift right?

So right now I'm thinking I should just take my FD and an Envy for my next few rounds, drop the x-step, and focus on "crush the can". Do you think this is a good starting point?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!!!

Side note: the first throw in the vid looks the best form-wise to me, is that accurate?

 

[sidewinder22]

Fundamentally you need to learn to "shift from behind you into the plant" instead of "trying to shift from in front of you" as SC explains below in best downswing weightshift. You are trying to push through the swing with your left foot still on the ground late and your front foot opened up, and you end pushing/tipping your upper body over top your front leg. You want to plant more like you could reverse direction on your front leg like a running back so your foot/leg needs to plant more underneath you/CoG. You are planting your front foot over too far toward the left teepad side away from your CoG, so you are stuck behind it and jamming into it instead of moving upright on it.

Note how your is right ear is going down to the ground so water would be coming out of your right ear in the finish. Note how McBeth's right ear is finishing upward so water would stay inside the ear. You should feel your chin leading your nose/top of head forward changing dynamic tilt to the front leg. Your dynamic tilt is stuck on your rear leg as you didn't shift off your rear foot/leg before coming into the plant.

Also note how your lower arm is angled to swing downward into the release, your hand/disc is above your elbow = nose up. Note how McBeth's hand/disc are swinging from below his elbow so it's slightly upward swing with the disc nose down. You may need to check and adjust your grip.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

 

[UhhNegative]

You are trying to go with the disc to the target. It's a big boy, it can go all by itself.

Joking aside, you are right, you're not really getting much out of a brace, but that may be a consequence of other things. You're definitely planting open and losing all power from your hips. Everything is opening too early and you aren't getting balanced on the front leg and just end up tipping towards the target instead of remaining more upright with a slight forward athletic tilt.

Ok, all those things might not make sense right now, but to answer your main question: I have seen the most success of people bettering their form by actually doing the seabas22 drills and filming them then posting here for feedback and correction. You're likely doing them wrong (not you in particular,everyone does at first) which definitely won't help. Once you get the feel of the drills correctly, then you can try to apply that feeling to the disc golf throw.

For you, I think you are right, some of the standstill drills would be good. The windmill drill in particular seems to help a lot of people with feeling the weight and rhythm of the swing. You seem to have pretty good upper body action on the throw (or good enough for now) so I would focus primarily on the lower body and footwork. Footwork is everything!

obligatory: do as a I say, not as a I do haha. It's taken me way too long to figure this stuff out but I'm right on the verge.

 

[UhhNegative]

The other thing I would say is drop the high speed drivers (except for fun times). If you are hitting 350' with a Wave (for example) you could probably get very close to that distance with an FD as well and probably control it a lot better. The one Wave I have is the flippiest driver I own and consequently super fun to throw

 

[coodaj]

This is so great. Thank you thank you for the awesome insight! I'll put it to good use and post an update after awhile.

 

[Parbequeue]

Glad to see you here from Reddit! Welcome to the rabbit hole

 

[coodaj]

Not sure how to reply directly, but here's some updated throws. Slight improvement?

https://youtu.be/-cmzT3fHgpQ

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think the x-step is helping, just adding more moving parts. I would suggest posting video of yourself doing Door Frame Drill and Reciprocating Dingle Arm.

You are crashing down over top your front leg, note how your head is aligned to your rear leg instead of the front leg. This should feel very weird/different. Note how your head is sinking below your shoulder. Paul is in perfect dynamic upright posture/balance like a skier going into a turn on the front leg. If you went into a ski turn like this you would bite it, note how your rear leg flies up and around in your finish like a roundhouse kick counter balancing your upper body going over top your front leg. You should feel like you are repelling the disc away from you in the finish like an Olympic Hammer Thrower, instead of your body chasing after the disc or being pulled off the teepad or front foot.

Your arm appears to scrunch up and have a lot of slack in it, and like you are trying to keep or manipulate the disc on a perfectly straight line to target instead of giving it a blow like hitting a tree with an axe. You need to feel your arm/disc hang and have weight and pulled taut like ball on string and leverage the lower arm/disc outward from your center in an arc. Swing more in a pendulum motion so your right shoulder should swing underneath your chin and your left shoulder going back and forth.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132496

 

[coodaj]

Super helpful!! I did bust out a hammer to do some drills, but didn't record it. I'll do that along with the door frame drill and post it. In the meantime, here's a rear view of a hyzer flip throw from yesterday. I usually dingle arm and towel whip before and a couple time during a round now. I'm up to 350'. https://youtu.be/jqt6Uz1pQ7c

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Note how you are leaning over while GG is balanced and stacked on right foot.

2. Note how your left foot is stepping in the way of your right foot toward left tee side and your right knee has to bend to stride around your left foot. Note how GG's left foot steps toward right tee side out of the way of right foot to stride straight thru.

3. Note how your right knee is landing on top ankle and your CoG is more to the right tee side of your ankle, and your left elbow is chicken winged out behind your back. Note how GG is landing in more athletic balance on front foot with left elbow in front of chest.

4. Note how your right knee collapses over to left tee side, and your shoulders are open, and your left shoulder has swung around your front shoulder so your right shoulder is acting as the center of rotation and so your shoulders are not a lever in the system. Note how GG's right knee braces and clears upright, and how his right shoulder has swung forward(not around) and is still closed. Also note how GG's left shoulder didn't really move between 3 and 4 so his left shoulder is the center of rotation swinging the whole shoulder lever and arm/disc from it.

 

[coodaj]

I just did this side by side comparison to simon. I still need to work on all of the points you made on the last post, but here's what I came up with for on this one https://youtu.be/2KVoNa8TCDM.

First things I notice:

1. I should start with the disc at my left hip and walk around it, then sling it forward instead of putting the disc behind me late in the run-up.

2. I need to plant firm and deweight my back leg, throwing it back/ shoulder closed/ head down while following allll the way through to target (rather than my leg swinging up and around).

3. I need to keep my grip closed all the way through the follow through (I have a bad habit of letting go of the disc that I keep falling back in to and it robs me of distance).

4. My forearm needs to be more of a pendulum or whip. --not really sure how to work on this one other than windmill and towel drills.

 

[Scraping Micha]

would time it, so that the planting frontfoot hits on the same frame. i think thats, what it all builds up to.

- x-step is a little jump. try to stay even with the ground, maybe you run up too fast? try it a little smaller, to be able to make a bigger last step to plant?
- keep your head straight...you are "watching the disc".
- your reachback seems a little too early.
engage your left arm more, whip it back to get the shoulders to 90°, loading the spring and use the fist and arm to give momentum towards the target right after the reachback.

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5cS9u_Y0w&t=4m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=6m3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuvujcEMLxs#t=1m25s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8#t=7m30s

 

[coodaj]

Thank you for the time stamped links!! I'll be going over these tonight and I'll film some throws tomorrow. Here's some from today (before I got your reply). https://youtu.be/ANcj_GkbDzQ

A little better, but if I can get the posture/plant/brace right I feel like it would be a big improvement.

 

[coodaj]

Here's me doing the door frame and reciprocating dingle arm drills https://youtu.be/19e4mpAum0E

 

[sidewinder22]

DFD - need to slow down and walk rear foot targetward to create more tension pulling shoulder further back from hips leveraging forward. When you release your rear is spinning out and you are falling back off front foot instead of being slingshot forward. Hang from the door frame with all your weight for long time.

RDA - yours hips are moving a ton while your shoulder is barely swinging back and forth. Should be opposite, 1-2" shift create long heavy shoulder swing like battering ram. Make your shoulder swing heavy back and forth.

 

[coodaj]

Take 2 https://youtu.be/agHqy5lgif4 I tried to take into account your points, but idk if this is much better

 

[sidewinder22]

DFD - your rear foot needs to walk out targetward, it's too close to door frame and too far away from front shoulder. Your front shoulder should almost be pulled back right over the rear foot/loaded back to rear foot/leg through the hips going forward. You are also staying too far behind your front foot after release and rear foot is spinning backward. Rear heel should go targetward after release and whole body go sling forward over front leg.

RDA - on the pendulum swings your hammer is slapping the nail with the side of the hammer instead of swinging the head thru nail to target. Looks like you are swinging or releasing too downward instead of out to target.

 

[coodaj]

Alright, here's take 3! DFD & RDA https://youtu.be/HERZCqNW58s

And my drives from the last 3 holes of my round earlier this morning. https://youtu.be/1W6dMjweHI4

I really need to plant first THEN pull. I'm still driving my elbow forward a little early when weight is still on my back leg. I feel like when I get the timing locked in it's going to be a big improvement. I'm confident the drills will help.

 

[sidewinder22]

DFD - hold on to door frame while you walk the rear foot out away, play around with moving your feet around while holding on. You walked too far away with shoulder now leaning behind rear foot and can't really leverage your hips forward from rear foot.

RDA - Hang your right shoulder lower than left shoulder and swing the whole shoulder/arm/hammer unit all together as one big lever to a wall right in front of your front foot. Your arm is releasing separated, no longer leveraged from your body, like you are trying to release in a straight line instead of leveraging forward. Your elbow is going around to the right and hyper extending instead of the lower arm swinging out around the elbow and then everything following thru the hit together. It's like you are trying to hit a nail at 12 o'clock between your body and target and releasing way late and trying to get your body out of the way, instead of releasing leveraged on diagonal to target like 10 'o'clock from your body like chopping a tree - you setup sideways to it to drive/slash thru it to target. You wouldn't try to stand sideways inline to the tree and chop it down.

Leverage and Centrifugal Force are Sideways:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910