Tech disc test driven development

[disc-golf-neil]

I'm pretty curious about this too.

I am doubly curious because I live in CO and everyone throws some pretty darn true anhyzer angles fairly often here. But I also see pros throw big annies, so Im not sure what this 'anhyzers are actually almost hyzer' concept is trying to say.

In person it's very easy to be mislead into thinking a shot was an anhyzer release because you immediately pay most attention to the disc turning a lot 1 second after release instead of actually seeing the instant of release angle.

Like if anyone I know saw this shot in person at
8:58

They'd probably think and say it was released on a decent amount of anhyzer if they were just answering with their first impression.

Most seemingly anhyzer shots in pro play that I pause are flat at most and often small hyzers that flip to turn very quickly after the moment of release. This is a good exercise to do when watching, you start to realize how often the release angle is hyzer when your first impression was anhyzer and how often the commentary is about anhyzer even when the release angle is hyzer.

The exceptions are big sky anhyzers over trees with an OS disc released on anhyzer, but when this shape is done with the intention of panning and landing flat instead of fading out earlier, it's much more likely to be released closer to flat or on a little hyzer due to the disc being less stable.

Other than that it's like utility type shots, scrambles, or when a tight wooded line really forces an S curve where the fade is important.

Here's an rare choice for a straight tunnel shot from Ezra A at 17:27 that actually is anny on release


Here's a hole where the default play is, as commentators say, to "get the disc on anhyzer". They use the term liberally though, I think, to not necessarily mean release on anhyzer, but to at some point have some turn.

7:26

They all release it on hyzer. Maytt O might be flat but if it's not flat it's a tiny bit of hyzer.

R2 8:19 same deal:


Final round 9:40 all hyzer:


This hole is a good example of forcing anhyzer at 21:17 but we only get a small amount of anhyzer.
2024 Music City Open | MPO R2B9 | Lizotte, Semerád, McBeth, Oman | Jomez Disc Golf

Most of the time people say "big/a lot of anhyzer" it's the shape that is big anhyzer and not the release angle that was a lot of degrees of anhyzer with sky shots being the main exception, imo.

 

[RowingBoats]

In person it's very easy to be mislead into thinking a shot was an anhyzer release because you immediately pay most attention to the disc turning a lot 1 second after release instead of actually seeing the instant of release angle.

Like if anyone I know saw this shot in person at
8:58

They'd probably think and say it was released on a decent amount of anhyzer if they were just answering with their first impression.

Most seemingly anhyzer shots in pro play that I pause are flat at most and often small hyzers that flip to turn very quickly after the moment of release. This is a good exercise to do when watching, you start to realize how often the release angle is hyzer when your first impression was anhyzer and how often the commentary is about anhyzer even when the release angle is hyzer.

The exceptions are big sky anhyzers over trees with an OS disc released on anhyzer, but when this shape is done with the intention of panning and landing flat instead of fading out earlier, it's much more likely to be released closer to flat or on a little hyzer due to the disc being less stable.

Other than that it's like utility type shots, scrambles, or when a tight wooded line really forces an S curve where the fade is important.

Here's an rare choice for a straight tunnel shot from Ezra A at 17:27 that actually is anny on release


Here's a hole where the default play is, as commentators say, to "get the disc on anhyzer". They use the term liberally though, I think, to not necessarily mean release on anhyzer, but to at some point have some turn.

7:26

They all release it on hyzer. Maytt O might be flat but if it's not flat it's a tiny bit of hyzer.

R2 8:19 same deal:


Final round 9:40 all hyzer:


This hole is a good example of forcing anhyzer at 21:17 but we only get a small amount of anhyzer.
2024 Music City Open | MPO R2B9 | Lizotte, Semerád, McBeth, Oman | Jomez Disc Golf

Most of the time people say "big/a lot of anhyzer" it's the shape that is big anhyzer and not the release angle that was a lot of degrees of anhyzer with sky shots being the main exception, imo.

If that is what is being discussed then I'm no longer confused lol.

I got to play in NJ last year and if that was my home state, I would probably also lean towards flight, rather than release angle, when I use the word anhyzer. In CO man, you have to actually throw anhyzer angles all the time. The difference is absolutely wild.

 

[Brychanus]

If that is what is being discussed then I'm no longer confused lol.

I got to play in NJ last year and if that was my home state, I would probably also lean towards flight, rather than release angle, when I use the word anhyzer. In CO man, you have to actually throw anhyzer angles all the time. The difference is absolutely wild.

Yeah, promise I'm really not trying to overcomplicate things as is my usual style, I just have "posture vision" when I'm trying to understand how bodies are moving most of the time.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

In CO man, you have to actually throw anhyzer angles all the time. The difference is absolutely wild.

Why would anybody want to live like that?

 

[Jaani]

Why is everybody so caught up with the release angle being anhyzer when all that eventually matters is the actual flight path? As we have seen, almost all of the so called anhyzer shots are released flat at most, if not on a hyzer, which means the anhyzers we talk about are not so much about the release as they are about the flight.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Why is everybody so caught up with the release angle being anhyzer when all that eventually matters is the actual flight path? As we have seen, almost all of the so called anhyzer shots are released flat at most, if not on a hyzer, which means the anhyzers we talk about are not so much about the release as they are about the flight.

Because I actually want to know the truth.

I can play fine thinking that I'm releasing flat when I'm releasing on 15° of hyzer. But I'd actually rather know what my real release angle is instead of lying to myself or pretending I know.

even if there was no benefit, I'd still want to know the truth. But at higher levels, there's more potential to fine-tune and optimize if you truly know what you're doing instead of being under an illusion about what you are actually doing.

 

[Jaani]

I see, and if you want to dig deeper in the truth more than, say, throw the way that gives you the best results, I totally understand. The problem here seems to be, people talk about anhyzers meaning two things: the release angle or the flight path.

If I had to choose which one is more important, I would have to go with the flight.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I see, and if you want to dig deeper in the truth more than, say, throw the way that gives you the best results, I totally understand. The problem here seems to be, people talk about anhyzers meaning two things: the release angle or the flight path.

If I had to choose which one is more important, I would have to go with the flight.

They're not mutually exclusive.

You can talk about flight without specifying a release angle. You can say "it flew on an S curve" without saying what the release angle was.

But an S curve is possible from a hyzer release angle, a flat release angle, and an anhyzer release angle depending on disc stability.

Simply getting real time objective feedback makes it easier to improve certain things like hitting a speed on command or an angle on command because you get instant confirmation if you were close or not and can start fine timing your feeling of speed and angles to the actual speeds and angles.

So if you start using a tech disc to benefit from that, you will likely be confronted with realizing you've been lying to yourself about what your release angles are. You can still maintain the lie and benefit from utilizing the tech disc instant feedback, but it's additional confusing steps to maintain the lie when repeatedly confronted with the actual data.

 

[Jaani]

I get it.

Still, I'm okay doing what I already do.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I get it.

Still, I'm okay doing what I already do.

yeah, like if you think you're throwing 64 mph, but you're actually throwing 60 mph but 60 mph was the right speed to park the hole with the angles you naturally throw, and then you learn that you threw 60 mph and not 64 mph, you should continue throwing the same to continue parking the hole. But, imo, you should also stop thinking that you are throwing 64 mph even though you don't have to change anything about your throw.

Another angle (hah) to look at this from is: if the terms and ways of talking about the sport become more precise over time, I think it will become easier to teach and easier to learn. Therefore, I will never pretend a hyzer release angle is an anhyzer release angle because I want to be contributing to being more precise and clear.

I should start trying to make sure to always specify 'release angle' if I'm talking about release angle and I should probably default to the assumption people mean 'shot shape' unless they say release angle or 'at release' or its clarified in another way or later on.

However, initially you can be more confusing if you're one of the few people being more precise with your terms while everyone else is being more loose, so there's growing pains to the language changing for sure.

 

[HyzerRoc]

How does your release angle change when playing for shorter left to right shots? Lets say you were to throw a 50 meter left to right moving shot with a putter - I would guess you would actually start to throw on an anhyzer release angle because you cant force the disc over like you could on a full power drive.

Why is everybody so caught up with the release angle being anhyzer when all that eventually matters is the actual flight path? As we have seen, almost all of the so called anhyzer shots are released flat at most, if not on a hyzer, which means the anhyzers we talk about are not so much about the release as they are about the flight.

Some people (me) have very little intuition about how to throw things. It helps tremendously to know how the pros approach throwing an anny shot and seeing it mapped out.

 

[Brychanus]

FWIW I'll get back to a practical comment again.

One thing I learned from the recent discussion is that I guess my brain/body works somewhere between Neil and Jaani's (I think):

1. I can simultaneously be more precise in what I say, measure, or think (Neil's point, and why I tend to mark up diagrams-plus I find it fun) and

2. Be totally comfortable with what works for me and KISS (Jaani's point).

E.g.: If I am more comfortable throwing hyzer in general, what this chatter told me (I think) is that my KISS method is to throw a shot that is actually on a baby hyzer or near flat that will achieve what a "flex" shot would, and someone else might see and call "anhyzer," that is a totally acceptable way to golf. Sweet.

Maybe if I go to Colorado I'd need Rowing to teach me something new.

@disc-golf-neil curious what you intend with S curve since I have seen that apply in different ways. I usually thought "S shot" was to used to describe a hyzer that starts on the left side of the fairway, flips and pans right, and then fades back at the end (my favorite shot).

Here is Innova's glossary of terms. Don't need to treat that like a holy book obviously, just know you like terms.

Glossary of Disc Golf Terms - Innova Disc Golf

New to Disc Golf? If you're new to the sport and don't understand the terms used in disc golf, you've come to the right place. Here you can find

www.innovadiscs.com

 

[Brychanus]

How does your release angle change when playing for shorter left to right shots? Lets say you were to throw a 50 meter left to right moving shot with a putter - I would guess you would actually start to throw on an anhyzer release angle because you cant force the disc over like you could on a full power drive.

If up for general discussion and I am interested in what others do, I throw a lot of putters:

1. As I approach 250'+ I am probably throwing a hyzerflip with a beat putter. Easy distance. I have the best feel for a 20 deg. or so release angle so that's what I try to throw, then just vary the trajectory. Swap disc when needed.


2. As I get to down to 150' or less I am generally either looking for the simplest hyzer line or true anhyzer/flex shot to mitigate variance. I used to try to throw understable hyzers for that left to right shot, but those shots tend to be very touchy so I only use them when it is the only line that makes sense. I started doing more closer to flat or true anhyzer (like Simon) and it works much better most of the time for me because I find it easier to control the right moving phase with something slightly more OS and pinpoint the landing with the flex shot. Not sure everyone likes that but it's saving me strokes and I occasionally get throw ins. I don't use FH often but do once in a while if needed at short range for left to right shots.

Sorry if sidetracking the goal of the thread.

 

[Sewer bill]

Why is everybody so caught up with the release angle being anhyzer when all that eventually matters is the actual flight path? As we have seen, almost all of the so called anhyzer shots are released flat at most, if not on a hyzer, which means the anhyzers we talk about are not so much about the release as they are about the flight.

I'm just curious and find it interesting. I have some doubts about the tech disc but that's not what this thread is for. Going off what it's saying angle wise throwing into a net it is pretty interesting how little anhyzer I can actually put on a disc when I try to put a lot on.

 

[Kennets]

I don't know anything, about stuff in general.

These pictures are 3-4 year olds and in the absolute beginning of my disc golf journey (where I barely threw any BH).

A new destroyer or a wraith (can't remember). Guess the flight?

Flat with a baby turn and it sure didn't look like that out of the hand.

I'm not sure how the tech disc measure the angle, it must be on release, right?

I would believe that what we classify as a "flat release" when we throw, are much more on a hyzer angle than we think

 

[HyzerRoc]

2. As I get to down to 150' or less I am generally either looking for the simplest hyzer line or true anhyzer/flex shot to mitigate variance. I used to try to throw understable hyzers for that left to right shot, but those shots tend to be very touchy so I only use them when it is the only line that makes sense. I started doing more closer to flat or true anhyzer (like Simon) and it works much better most of the time for me because I find it easier to control the right moving phase with something slightly more OS and pinpoint the landing with the flex shot. Not sure everyone likes that but it's saving me strokes and I occasionally get throw ins. I don't use FH often but do once in a while if needed at short range for left to right shots.

Sorry if sidetracking the goal of the thread.

I started going for both of the shots you describe here with some anhyzer release (at least it feels like an anhyzer release) with straight putters/mids. However those are really hit or miss and I rarely get the angle right. I either go straight instead or way too anhyzer. And then my power control on those shots also sucks. It has been that way ever since transitioning to a more vertical/proper form. So reframing this with thinking about angles differently might be the way to get better at those shots. Thinking of power left-to-right shots as a flat release has helped a lot so informing upshots with some data might also help.

So to tie this back in with the thread: I would be interested in some tech disc numbers on anny upshots/short drives. My hunch is that power shots will have less anny-angle and upshots will have some more, maybe even dipping into actual anny releases, for comparable shot shapes.



I just thought to get some stuff from pros throwing a left-to-right upshot and this is the first one that come to mind. I think Chris Dickerson has some very slight anny angle on what is a very stable disc for that one.

I don't know anything, about stuff in general.

These pictures are 3-4 year olds and in the absolute beginning of my disc golf journey (where I barely threw any BH).

A new destroyer or a wraith (can't remember). Guess the flight?

Flat with a baby turn and it sure didn't look like that out of the hand.

I'm not sure how the tech disc measure the angle, it must be on release, right?

I would believe that what we classify as a "flat release" when we throw, are much more on a hyzer angle than we think

I find your posts on here pretty insightful and concise, maybe you can give yourself some credit for being smart about discgolf.

Now that you say it, talking about release angles gets more and more complicated. I think your release is good for a flat flight, but it is still a hyzer-angle. Maybe we should use flat when the release angle is actually flat but differentiate that form a flat flight.

 

[itlnstln]

Because I actually want to know the truth.

I can play fine thinking that I'm releasing flat when I'm releasing on 15° of hyzer. But I'd actually rather know what my real release angle is instead of lying to myself or pretending I know.

even if there was no benefit, I'd still want to know the truth. But at higher levels, there's more potential to fine-tune and optimize if you truly know what you're doing instead of being under an illusion about what you are actually doing.

[super subjective take comin' through]

I think the thing I struggle with re: Tech Disc is that I'm not entirely sure how I use this information on a course in real time. It doesn't really matter to me what angle and speed I'm actually throwing as much as knowing I can hit the line and distance to my target as well as what disc and arm speed I need to achieve that. Hell, when I started playing we didn't even have range finders (or weren't really available/used back then).

Part of my perspective is shaped by intuitiveness that's either natural or developed. Also, TD data is an output vs. an input, so on a course, if I had one on a disc, I wouldn't have that data until after I throw vs. information I need to know going into the throw. Range finders, OTOH, provide input data. IMO, being familiar with your bag, proper wind reads, and trained body control/form are going to get more consistent outcomes than knowing if your hyzer angle is 15 deg. or 17 deg. I'm not even too sure I'd be able to dial in that kind of precision in real time (but perhaps it could be trainable!)

Where I think it can be very helpful is simulations when throwing into a net in off season practice, especially in form development where I would like to know the flight outcome of a form tweak that I wouldn't get by throwing into a net. For example, if I'm having nose-up issues, I can see that in the flight of the disc, but I wouldn't be able to tell if I'm correcting it properly throwing into a net. I can definitely see the training/development use cases, and through intentional, data-driven training, one can develop the feel that might be more useful on the course

 

[timothy42b]

Why is everybody so caught up with the release angle being anhyzer when all that eventually matters is the actual flight path? As we have seen, almost all of the so called anhyzer shots are released flat at most, if not on a hyzer, which means the anhyzers we talk about are not so much about the release as they are about the flight.

Yes the flight angle is what we're trying to produce. Is there more than one way to do it?

Can you release the disc on a hyzer angle, but because it is understable and you threw it at the right speed, it flipped anhyzer?

Can you take a disc that will not flip and throw it anhyzer? Maybe because you need it to fade left at the end? How do you do that?

Is it the arm angle or the wrist angle? I watched a player on my course throw a perfect anhyzer at maybe 150-200 feet, around some trees and parked. He was leaned forward (west) and his arm was definitely on a hyzer plane. How did he do it? (I would have asked him if I could.)

 

[itlnstln]

Yes the flight angle is what we're trying to produce. Is there more than one way to do it?

Can you release the disc on a hyzer angle, but because it is understable and you threw it at the right speed, it flipped anhyzer?

Can you take a disc that will not flip and throw it anhyzer? Maybe because you need it to fade left at the end? How do you do that?

Is it the arm angle or the wrist angle? I watched a player on my course throw a perfect anhyzer at maybe 150-200 feet, around some trees and parked. He was leaned forward (west) and his arm was definitely on a hyzer plane. How did he do it? (I would have asked him if I could.)

I think the answer here is experimentation. It's interesting that we can get this data from tech disc, but at the end of the day, it's the target shot shape, our biomechanics, and our bag. Tech Disc isn't going to give us that answer on its own.

I'm not trying to disparage TD by any means. There's so many more variables that go into a shot that TD can't help with.

 

[Brychanus]

I started going for both of the shots you describe here with some anhyzer release (at least it feels like an anhyzer release) with straight putters/mids. However those are really hit or miss and I rarely get the angle right. I either go straight instead or way too anhyzer. And then my power control on those shots also sucks. It has been that way ever since transitioning to a more vertical/proper form. So reframing this with thinking about angles differently might be the way to get better at those shots. Thinking of power left-to-right shots as a flat release has helped a lot so informing upshots with some data might also help.

So to tie this back in with the thread: I would be interested in some tech disc numbers on anny upshots/short drives. My hunch is that power shots will have less anny-angle and upshots will have some more, maybe even dipping into actual anny releases, for comparable shot shapes.

Agree about data. What was the Dickerson shot? Couldn't get the timestamp to work.

FWIW I relate to your short shot experience. Since I build most of my driving mechanics on hyzer, I had to change strategies for versatility in upshots and putts. Watching coverage helped a lot for me. My upshot chain of action is very similar to my backhand drives, but I had to watch a lot of Simon in the woods to help visualize those anny lines better. Brinster also uses a lot of big tilts in the whole body that were easier for me to pick up for whatever reason. The way my arm and wrist work are probably subtly different than my driving but I stopped paying too much attention to it when it started working for me. It's also easier (for me) to control a true anhyzer weight shift and release from a standstill stagger stance. I'm not sure if it's the same for everyone. I also usually bring one OS slow disc which either comes out when I need the harsh flex or mid-flight fade if my Simon-y touch shots are coming out a little sloppy that day.

I was mentioning on Neil's thread that the power mechanics on short shots can be hard for some people- it took a while before my short range shots tapped the same power sources as the bigger driving chain. Every once in a while my shortest shots still "disconnect" the chain like RowingBoats mentioned and the power drop is dramatic. So I just kept training the same(ish) chain in every action from putts to drives.