The lost art of course reviewing

[Hampstead]

May be hard for you to understand, but that certain troll actually likes this site quite a bit. That certain troll has been posting reviews here possibly before you were even born. That certain troll is disappointed in the quality of the moderation as of late and that certain troll actually had to appeal to the owner of this website to investigate the actions of the moderators who attempted to ban this certain troll for life for reasons they refused to explain. We know that that certain troll isn't the only one that these moderators have banned on a whim. We know that these moderators repeatedly deleted a newbie's attempts to give his valid opinion on Flip City.

While the moderators claim to value diversity above all else, their demonstrated actions prove they do not value diversity of opinions. The very core of this website is opinions. And if you don't allow everyone to post their opinions, you end of with a biased, misleading, and less-accurate website, which is not the goal.

A certain troll actually cares a lot more about this website than you know. This certain troll has written over 100 reviews of under-reviewed courses and updated course information at dozens more. Does that really look like someone who hates this website to you? Perhaps that certain troll is the only one who dares to speak up about the mods when they can ban him at any time just for expressing his opinion that they are changing the site into one where only certain opinions are allowed. But if that certain troll doesn't speak up then the mods will probably just keep banning people until there's no one left to write those sub 4.5 reviews of Houck courses.

Maybe our only hope is for Elon Musk to offer Tim a billion dollars to sell the website and clean house.

You have repeated this nonsense in various threads. Tim has even responded to you, yet you persist. I'm not trying to be funny here, have you suffered from some sort of head trauma?

Name another one besides this miller guy then? Unless your accusations count as data? I honestly couldn't care less if someone doesn't like a particular course and don't typically notice any of these reviews until people report them. The fact that you think certain courses get reviews tossed because I'm friends with a designer or have some personal interest in a random course in Texas or Missouri or whereever is insane. That said, if your review is "this course is dumb, I lost a disc in the tall grass" and then you get angry because your "review" was removed then not sure what to tell you.

That Miller guy clearly has some sort of axe to grind because someone hurt his feelings at Flip. After posting reviews where the content was essentially "these people were mean", I told him to review the course and he clearly is not capable of separating his interaction with the course itself.

 

[eegor]

Long ago, in a time when I did a lot of travelling, I wrote quite a few reviews. I tried to rate the courses on the quality of disc golf, and mentioned amenities if they were, or weren't there. Now, I play the same courses, over and over again, in the DFW area. These courses have been reviewed many times, and unless I disagree with the majority of them, I don't see a reason to repeat what has been said. AClay is a great guy that plays in the group I play in. He still has the desire to travel to new courses, and in my opinion, writes excellent reviews.

I don't think it's helpful to have reviews similar to those on UDISC. When I'm going to a new course, I want to have some idea of what I'm going to see. This is, by far, the best site to plan a disc golfing trip with. I'm glad Tim keeps it going.

 

[wolfhaley]

I believe the gentleman who started this thread Mr. wolfhaley referred to these reviews as "drivel"—-perhaps he will testify to having read them before they were deleted. A few others have also made comments about them.

I did, in fact, read your last two reviews. Drivel sums them up nicely. It's unfortunate though, you are one of the better reviewers on here, or were at least. Those deserved to be deleted. You know it as well as I do. They weren't reviews, they were a couple of your recent angry temper tantrum tirades written as a review instead of a post on the forums. All because a review of Flip that was off base got deleted. Could you testify about having read that deleted Flip review? The guy gave the course a bad review because he was ill prepared to navigate the course alone and some "locals" didn't let him tag along with them. And that was somehow reflective of Flip itself. Which, by the way, I've played. Twice. Unlike you. And the navigation is pretty damn straightforward. This is the hill you chose to die on?

 

[MikeK]

You crack me up wolfie. I'm not dying nor am I on a hill. You started this thread wondering why reviews are dwindling and then when you get honest feedback you shoot the messenger.

I did read the poor newbie's review of Flip. Sure, it wasn't up to wolfie diamond standards, but so flipping what? My first review on this website got at least 10 thumbs down…but it wasn't deleted because it wasn't about y'all's favorite course, and it was also back in the days before the little cliques here got so arrogant that they won't tolerate any opinions other than their own.

If you'll recall I pointed out at the time numerous other reviews that were just as bad or even worse (like the zero star review of Whipping Post) that haven't been deleted. I get it—-that's how this site now operates, it's biased, it's intolerant, and it has no patience for new reviewers who don't conform to its unwritten rules.

That's the point—-if you have a problem with a review, post about it in the bad/homer review thread, but don't delete it! Maybe the guy who wrote it will learn from the feedback and try to write better reviews. As chunkula pointed out, the one bad review of Flip wouldn't even affect its standing in the top 10. What are y'all so afraid of?

 

[sillybizz]

You crack me up wolfie. I'm not dying nor am I on a hill. You started this thread wondering why reviews are dwindling and then when you get honest feedback you shoot the messenger.

I did read the poor newbie's review of Flip. Sure, it wasn't up to wolfie diamond standards, but so flipping what? My first review on this website got at least 10 thumbs down…but it wasn't deleted because it wasn't about y'all's favorite course, and it was also back in the days before the little cliques here got so arrogant that they won't tolerate any opinions other than their own.

If you'll recall I pointed out at the time numerous other reviews that were just as bad or even worse (like the zero star review of Whipping Post) that haven't been deleted. I get it—-that's how this site now operates, it's biased, it's intolerant, and it has no patience for new reviewers who don't conform to its unwritten rules.

That's the point—-if you have a problem with a review, post about it in the bad/homer review thread, but don't delete it! Maybe the guy who wrote it will learn from the feedback and try to write better reviews. As chunkula pointed out, the one bad review of Flip wouldn't even affect its standing in the top 10. What are y'all so afraid of?

Every time you click "review this course" you're greeted with this:

Stick to reviewing and commenting on the course and not other reviews/reviewers.
Please do not actively promote other courses in your review.
A course review is *not* the place to advertise your business/website.
Do not give an artificially low/high rating to try to influence the overall rating. Please give an honest rating.
Refrain from cursing and/or using profanity in your review.
Do not reference any illegal or drug related activities in your review.
Only rate a course if you have played a majority of the holes on it.
Do not review a course unless you have played it recently (ie. within the last 6-12 months)
* Not abiding by one or more of the rules above may result in the removal of your review from the site.

Even though it's not up there I imagine if you reference politics or anything not pertaining to the course you're reviewing the bolded section will apply. I think that's just common sense. I have not read any of the deleted reviews and have never even been to Michigan. I have reviewed several John Houck courses and my ratings on such courses all fall between 3.0 and 5.0 stars or discs out of ten. None of those reviews have been deleted.

 

[MikeK]

Silly, those rules are nice, and if they were actually applied at all times that would be just fine. Over the summer, I posted numerous examples of reviews that violate the policies you just posted, but the reviews are still there and still counting towards the courses' ratings. Of course, it was too much for the moderators and they either locked the thread or just deleted every post I made about these reviews that violate their own policy. Wish I could link to that collection of knowledge for you debate.

It's said as you age your skin gets thinner, and your ability to reflect on your own faults diminishes. Let's be honest, who does the vast majority of posting on this website? Old bitter over-the-hill guys whose skins grow thinner by the hour.

 

[Three Putt]

UPM's posts about course reviews were not deleted. A bunch of them were moved to the Landfill because he derailed the thread he posted them in. They are still there for members to wonder and behold: It's not worth the amount of attention being paid it.

The rest of his thoughts about this website being an elaborate John Houck conspiracy are still in the Bad/Homer Course Reviews thread. So for anyone who wants to take a deep dive into his thoughts, they are all still there.

As for his hangup about deleted posts, he did have a lot of posts in a Nikko Locastro thread deleted because he made a joke that was reported as being offensive, and he argued that until he got a level-one ban.

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for the link 3Putt! That landfilled thread is great not just for the evidence I provided, but it was fun seeing how I literally took on the entire cast of DGCR and destroyed them.

The following quote pretty much sums up DGCR these days:

Like you said this website is about opinions, not necessarily facts. When Tim posted" Name another one besides this miller guy then? Unless your accusations count as data?"—well, I started naming a list and lo and behold here we are in the landfill, rather than having a discussion about all these subjective review deletions.

 

[Three Putt]

Funny, I don't feel destroyed. :| You do you, though.

 

[Three Putt]

Full disclosure: I don't know timg. I've met people on this site that I feel like I know even though I haven't met them IRL, but timg and I have had very few conversations over the 13 years I've been a moderator. So everything I say can be wrong (as always) and take it with a grain of salt.

My impression is that DGCR has never been a very significant revenue source for timg, so it hasn't generated a lot of capital he can reinvest in the site. I also get the impression that the disc golf bug is a long-ago phenomenon for him; he doesn't seem to eat/sleep/breath disc golf like some of the rest of us. We keep using the site, and it's not losing money, so he's OK with keeping it going as is. There will probably never be a significant upgrade of what is already here. When it dies, it dies. He's not looking at losing a bunch of income if it does.

He's not going to try to compete with UDisc. UDisc is probably a team of people working on a variety of projects all the time. They have to be, UDisc is their job and they need the money rolling in. timg is one guy with a job and other stuff to do who has a little website on the side. It's apples/oranges to compare the two.

DGCR is old-school disc golf. There was no money in it, nobody had heard of it and people DIY'ed things. Most of that stuff is gone; DGCR is a disc golf dinosaur from days gone by when your mother-in-law just couldn't understand why you were going to drive 50 miles to throw Frisbees. We needed good reviews; who wants to drive 50 miles and find out the 4.5 rated course with the one-line "great course" reviews actually was an overgrown field with three baskets?

UDisc is the new corporate disc golf; it's got all the shiny bells and whistles. It also has no soul, but you are going to pass seven disc golf courses before you drive 50 miles now so whatever. The bells and whistles are fun sometimes, though.

Basically if somebody really has a vision for a DGCR future and the $$$ to back it up, they should make timg an offer. Otherwise...I think this is it, guys. We enjoy this site for what it is for as long as it's still up and running. It's been fun, and it will stay fun as long as it lasts.

Nothing lasts forever, though. I'm kinda shocked that we are still here TBH.

 

[playrecords]

Well said 3p

Full disclosure: I don't know timg. I've met people on this site that I feel like I know even though I haven't met them IRL, but timg and I have had very few conversations over the 13 years I've been a moderator. So everything I say can be wrong (as always) and take it with a grain of salt.

My impression is that DGCR has never been a very significant revenue source for timg, so it hasn't generated a lot of capital he can reinvest in the site. I also get the impression that the disc golf bug is a long-ago phenomenon for him; he doesn't seem to eat/sleep/breath disc golf like some of the rest of us. We keep using the site, and it's not losing money, so he's OK with keeping it going as is. There will probably never be a significant upgrade of what is already here. When it dies, it dies. He's not looking at losing a bunch of income if it does.

He's not going to try to compete with UDisc. UDisc is probably a team of people working on a variety of projects all the time. They have to be, UDisc is their job and they need the money rolling in. timg is one guy with a job and other stuff to do who has a little website on the side. It's apples/oranges to compare the two.

DGCR is old-school disc golf. There was no money in it, nobody had heard of it and people DIY'ed things. Most of that stuff is gone; DGCR is a disc golf dinosaur from days gone by when your mother-in-law just couldn't understand why you were going to drive 50 miles to throw Frisbees. We needed good reviews; who wants to drive 50 miles and find out the 4.5 rated course with the one-line "great course" reviews actually was an overgrown field with three baskets?

UDisc is the new corporate disc golf; it's got all the shiny bells and whistles. It also has no soul, but you are going to pass seven disc golf courses before you drive 50 miles now so whatever. The bells a whistles are fun sometimes, though.

Basically if somebody really has a vision for a DGCR future and the $$$ to back it up, they should make timg an offer. Otherwise...I think this is it, guys. We enjoy this site for what it is for as long as it's still up and running. It's been fun, and it will stay fun as long as it lasts.

Nothing lasts forever, though. I'm kinda shocked that we are still here TBH.

well said 3p. I joined this site to track my courses played. Lately have found that the forums are pretty fun times.

 

[Mando]

Full disclosure: I don't know timg.

A moderator for 13 years and you've never met him and rarely talked. Weird.

 

[Mando]

Full disclosure: I don't know timg. I've met people on this site that I feel like I know even though I haven't met them IRL, but timg and I have had very few conversations over the 13 years I've been a moderator.

My impression is that DGCR has never been a very significant revenue source for timg, so it hasn't generated a lot of capital he can reinvest in the site. I also get the impression that the disc golf bug is a long-ago phenomenon for him; he doesn't seem to eat/sleep/breath disc golf like some of the rest of us. We keep using the site, and it's not losing money, so he's OK with keeping it going as is. There will probably never be a significant upgrade of what is already here. When it dies, it dies. He's not looking at losing a bunch of income if it does.

DGCR is old-school disc golf.

But then, I just saw a banner ad for an electric Cadillac ? I don't think he's looking at losing a bunch of income.

 

[Mando]

A DGCR guideline for reviewing a course:
Do not review a course if you have not played a majority of the holes.
So it's ok to play 10 out of 18 and call it a course played ? I don't think so.

 

[Three Putt]

But then, I just saw a banner ad for an electric Cadillac ? I don't think he's looking at losing a bunch of income.

Back for a time there were site-specific ads for places like Marshall Street, but now all the ads are just those package deals for places like 1-800-Flowers. DGCR doesn't have an ad department and nobody to call Marshall Street to take out an ad.

How did we used to get those ads? I have no idea. Tim never discussed that with us.

Tim also never told us who his advertisers were and never told us to delete posts that criticized places that were advertising here. That used to be a popular conspiracy theory; people would post that I was told to delete something and I'd just laugh. I mean the people who believed that are not going to believe me when I say it isn't true anyway. I'm part of the conspiracy, right? Of course I'd say Tim never talked to me about it.

Tim never talked to the moderators about it, though.

 

[sillybizz]

Back for a time there were site-specific ads for places like Marshall Street, but now all the ads are just those package deals for places like 1-800-Flowers. DGCR doesn't have an ad department and nobody to call Marshall Street to take out an ad.

How did we used to get those ads? I have no idea. Tim never discussed that with us.

Tim also never told us who his advertisers were and never told us to delete posts that criticized places that were advertising here. That used to be a popular conspiracy theory; people would post that I was told to delete something and I'd just laugh. I mean the people who believed that are not going to believe me when I say it isn't true anyway. I'm part of the conspiracy, right? Of course I'd say Tim never talked to me about it.

Tim never talked to the moderators about it, though.

As a former moderator I can attest to this, 3 putt is being pretty dang honest in this thread. No I am not part of the conspiracy lol.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

No I am not part of the conspiracy lol.

That's exactly what someone who is part of a conspiracy would say.

 

[sillybizz]

That's exactly what someone who is part of a conspiracy would say.

 

[biscoe]

A DGCR guideline for reviewing a course:
Do not review a course if you have not played a majority of the holes.
So it's ok to play 10 out of 18 and call it a course played ? I don't think so.

Walking all the holes should be sufficient, no need to play. Just imo.

 

[sillybizz]

Walking all the holes should be sufficient, no need to play. Just imo.

Many of the crappy 9ers where you have baskets in a field I just go to the center of the field, look at tee to basket on each hole and call it good. Especially on lengthy road trips and such