I need a Ruling

[1854online]

I've been over the rules and want to hear what you all think. Here's what happened:

Anonymous Player A: Par 3 Hole: Great Drive, decent 2nd shot, missed putt. Got Mad, walked up, picked up his disc without marking the lie and placed it in the basket from 2 feet away and then walked to the next hole...IN TOURNAMENT PLAY.

I think this should have been a 2 stroke penalty because he advanced his disc without marking it. The group, including Anonymous Player A's know-it-all girlfriend (who was walking with our group and decided to appoint herself a rules official), decided that is should be a warning, that it fell under the rules about marking a lie.

We warned him and moved on but after reading the rules, it seems to me that it's not an issue with marking the lie because he never marked the lie. But rather that he advanced his disc while it was still in play since it was never marked.

The soap box is yours...

 

[Beable]

I think this should have been a 2 stroke penalty because he advanced his disc without marking it.

Regardless of the rules, I think your behavior here is ridiculous. How about winning by playing better than the other guy, instead of relying on technicalities to inflate his score?

Edit-I guess this is the appropriate rule section. Looks like a warning is appropriate to me.

803.03 Marking the Lie

A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker. This can be done by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface between the hole and the disc, directly in line with the hole, on the line of play, touching the thrown disc. A player may instead choose, without touching or repositioning the thrown disc, to use the thrown disc as the marker. The marker may not be moved until the throw is released. A marker inadvertently moved prior to the throw shall be returned to its correct location.

B. A player is only required to mark the lie with a mini marker disc when repositioning the lie under the rules. This includes the following rules: out-of-bounds, disc above the playing surface, lost disc, unplayable lie, relocated for relief, interference, or repositioning the lie within 1 meter of the out-of-bounds line.
<snip>

G. A player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a marking rule if observed by
two or more players of the group or an official. One penalty throw shall be assessed for each
subsequent violation of any marking rule during the round if observed by two or more players of
the group or an official.

 

[zenbot]

I think it's just a warning. I couldn't find anything specific to advancing the disc.

803.03 Marking the Lie

G. A player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a marking rule if observed by
two or more players of the group or an official. One penalty throw shall be assessed for each
subsequent violation of any marking rule during the round if observed by two or more players of
the group or an official.

 

[sidewinding]

Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or
obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a
competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

 

[zenbot]

Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or
obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a
competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

What section is that in?

 

[Frank Delicious]

Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or
obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a
competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

That doesn't really sound like it applies.

 

[SomeChump]

Seriously? You'd call someone on that? I must not be in tournaments as serious as the ones you play in.

 

[Kwick]

Seems pretty cut and dry based on Beable's post. Warning with 1 penatly for the next marking infraction

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Beable is correct............ 803.03 Marking the Lie applies here. Furthermore, the guys' girlfriend and her comments should have NO bearing on the ruling, unless she IS a Certified PDGA Official.

........i'm even wearing my PDGA Tour Official polo today.

 

[sidewinding]

That doesn't really sound like it applies.

My point exactly. That's why I underlined what it does apply to.

 

[zenbot]

Beable is correct............ 803.03 Marking the Lie applies here. Furthermore, the guys' girlfriend and her comments should have NO bearing on the ruling, unless she IS a Certified PDGA Official.

........i'm even wearing my PDGA Tour Official polo today.

The OP and the guy were both on the card. If two players witness the action they can make the call. That's why you can't have less than 3 on a card.

 

[sidewinding]

906.31 Girlfriends

A players girlfriend is not allowed to speak. She must be cute in order to tag along with the group. Her clothing should be such that it highlights the natural curvature of her body. Her duties must be limited to carrying equipment. She should in no way be allowed to interpret PDGA rules.

 

[Cgkdisc]

...unless she's a certified official...

 

[Vegan Ray]

An certified official specifically empowered by the event, per your inexplicable reading of the rules, right Chuck?

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

906.31 Girlfriends

A players girlfriend is not allowed to speak. She must be cute in order to tag along with the group. Her clothing should be such that it highlights the natural curvature of her body. Her duties must be limited to carrying equipment. She should in no way be allowed to interpret PDGA rules.

LMAO !! :hfive:

 

[Cgkdisc]

While a warning would be appropriate for an inadvertent mistake in marking a lie, this player took deliberate action to circumvent the rules which could be a DQ. My thinking as a marshal would be that refusal to perform two actions expected by the courtesy rules (801.01C) - not marking the lie and not properly holing out in combination would deserve a one-throw penalty, but not a DQ.

 

[Cgkdisc]

An certified official specifically empowered by the event, per your inexplicable reading of the rules, right Chuck?

Nope. Never said that. I just said they couldn't be the only one making the call but could second it. His post only indicated she couldn't interpret the rules, not actually make a call and anyone can offer input on that.

 

[JTacoma03]

Yeah sorry OP I'm going to have to go with the masses here. I wouldn't even call him for a warning on that. If it was an otherwise legal putt without a mark from 24" away I don't think it's worth the energy to get pissed.

Did he give himself an advantage by not marking the lie on a putt so close he can just place the disc in the basket? No.

 

[AdamE]

906.31 Girlfriends

A players girlfriend is not allowed to speak. She must be cute in order to tag along with the group. Her clothing should be such that it highlights the natural curvature of her body. Her duties must be limited to carrying equipment. She should in no way be allowed to interpret PDGA rules.

I like cute girls on the course as much as the next guy, but I'd like to make an addendum to this rule.

906.32 Girlfriends
Her clothes should in no way be revealing or suggestive. This tends to distract other players on the card and thus give her boyfriend an unfair advantage over the other players.


But back to the original post. I've seen this happen a couple times in tournaments and have let it go. I'm not playing pro, so there's no reason to be a rule nazi. Failing to mark a disc 2 feet from the basket isn't going to have an impact on the score. If a rule is broken that could have an effect on the game, then I would say something.

 

[dmalexander]

Sounds kinda harsh to penalize someone two feet away for not marking his lie. I understand the rules but it happens quite a bit, at least in rec, but the majority of us are there to have a good time. What division are you playing in?