Anyone having trouble promoting PDGA events?

[NPCTour]

In my region I am of course faced with the Southern Nationals crowd. After 4 years of running Southern Nationals events, I have switched to PDGA events and trying to promote them.
I have been met with many different feelings on this issue, expecially the older players who were very much a part of growing the Southern Nationals here and the guy who runs it behind the scenes lives in the next town over.

Regardless, players are struggling to cope with the $10 non-member fee and the expensive membership fees. Sure, starting your membership is great and you receive a nice package, but renewing a membership is the hard part. You do not get a nice package any more and your sent a dogtag.

I can go on and on about why I think the benefits are great to support our founding organization and without the PDGA, disc golf wouldn't have much. But, the incentives for players on a low budget and few tournaments a year are a huge portion of the disc golf community that the PDGA is missing.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[mashnut]

Ratings can be a big motivator to play sanctioned events, most people who play PDGA events like to see how their rating stacks up to other players and how it changes over time. It also helps to market it as a $10 discount for PDGA membership rather than as an added fee.

 

[Violets caddy]

I'm not too familiar with the southern nationals so I could just be talking outta my bunghole here but...

From what I understand the SN basically own the entire southeast portion of the country, there's some pretty strong anti pdga feelings and basically its SN or nothing.

So simple solution, the pdga fails miserably at gaining members in SN territory so work with them to offer the SN members (are they even members?) A discounted pdga membership fee. Call it dual membership or whatever.
Then you've opened up an entire new membership base where before there was none.

I realize offering a certain segment of the dg community a cheaper rate will make some people unhappy but I think the benefit of adding large numbers of new players outweighs the flak they'll catch.

Make it temporary, say for the next five years a dual member pays $30 pdga fees. By the time the five years is up if you've done your job there will be pdga events all over and every weekend, so the the players won't want to give that up and won't mind paying full dues.

Both parties would be fools to pass up an opportunity to grow.

 

[DavidSauls]

One correction---SN isn't the entire southeastern part of the country. It seems to be Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, maybe a little of Texas, and the Florida panhandle. Here in the Carolinas and Georgia the PDGA is firmly entrenched.

Seems to me the PDGA did something a few years back---D-teirs, where "D" was for "developmental", for areas with low PDGA membership. I think the non-member fees were discounted, maybe waived. (I wasn't paying close attention because it didn't apply here)

It's really a chicken/egg issue. Why offer PDGA events when there are few PDGA players around? Why be a PDGA player when there are few PDGA events around?

I'm not sure how to untangle that.

My understanding is SN doesn't have memberships, or at least paid memberships. If you play in an SN event you get points, and a portion of your entry goes to the championship purse. So there wouldn't be an dual-membership. I have seen a few events that are dual-sanctioned.

 

[NPCTour]

Before me, there hasn't been a PDGA event in central Arkansas since 2001 and 1994 before that. If I don't host a PDGA event, there won't be one. So, I have decided to make all my events PDGA and give these players a chance to see value in their membership.
Example: most of the locals will play in all of the events I host. Since I host nearly 8-10 events yearly, it would be worth their time to pick up a membership.
On a side note: From the 4 years I hosted SN events, I studied and viewed all events and players that I could to see the benefits in hosting them. I then realized that the top MPO player in SN has WON the Southern Nationals Championship 4-5 times up to date and nobody was interested in giving him a sponsorship. It wasn't until he played in a few worlds and NT events that he started to get recognized.
With that being said, I do wish that one day central Arkansas could produce a World Champion and seek a sponsorship to play disc golf. That is one of many reasons I will promote the PDGA here. The people in this region have just been brainwashed to dislike the PDGA and I have yet to hear a concrete reason from any of the older players. Some of these newer players have no clue what the PDGA is and go with the flo.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If you can raise at least $10 per person added cash for pros and $10 additional worth in player packs for Ams, it's harder for the non-members to complain about the additional $10 fee.

 

[NPCTour]

I understand what you mean there, but I think I have spoiled these players around here too. I work well with the local visitors bureau here and have an annual contract with them for a least 5 events to give me $500 or more towards those players packs and trophies. Players know they are getting a players pack when they come to my events for sure.
Also, I haven't yet taken any money out of the players entries in pros or amateurs for players packs.
The only problem is a majority of players/people are not ready for a change. Its the transition phase that people have to deal with and gripe about that causes this silly turmoil.

 

[craftsman]

Ive respected everything youve been doing and your said intentions in promoting pdga, however, until you can respect where anti pdgaist are coming from, you wont be able to bridge the gap. :/

 

[Cgkdisc]

Other TDs have been successful simply covering the non-PDGA $10 fees using their sponsorship money so there's a direct connection. Maybe limit it to the first 25, 35 or 50 nonmembers.

 

[NPCTour]

Ive respected everything youve been doing and your said intentions in promoting pdga, however, until you can respect where anti pdgaist are coming from, you wont be able to bridge the gap. :/

The weird thing is this: like I said previously, players around here can't give me a concrete idea on why they have such a problem with the PDGA and it doesn't seem like no matter what I do will ever change their decision. That is between them and the PDGA.

I've heard many excuses like:

1) It's too expensive to host a PDGA event.
2) Nobody knows where the money goes from the PDGA FEES.
3) "I'm not paying for those BOD vacations"
4) That $10 non member fee is keeping me from playing.
5) Every year they raise the membership fees and I am not paying them.

And the list keeps going. I am not 100% sold on these issues though. PDGA is our governing body and in the magazine I receive they do post a financial report.

 

[NPCTour]

Other TDs have been successful simply covering the non-PDGA $10 fees using their sponsorship money so there's a direct connection. Maybe limit it to the first 25, 35 or 50 nonmembers.

Great idea! I wonder if any current member will come back with if they are getting a $10 discount, what do I get if I am a current PDGA MEMBER?

Maybe they won't think of it that way and just be happy to play.

 

[Cgkdisc]

You still put at least $10 in for them if you can. It's just a matter of presentation just like calling it a member discount rather than non-member fee. Consider that the PDGA members who may be a little better on average than the nonmembers get a larger field to compete against and win more than they may perceive being "lost" by you covering the $10 non-PDGA fees.

 

[jenb]

I still think it would be better to simply charge a nominal fee (e.g., $2) per player, require everyone to be a member, and offer free membership. Or charge $5 for membership, and $5 per player. Whatever. Just get rid of this extra charge for not being a member. Lower the cost to join and require membership, while charging a small per player fee. That would require everyone to have a rating, and stop all that controversy over the non-membership penalty. The price per player can be optimized accordingly. Maybe $5 to start, but then $1 or $2 ought to do it, once tournaments start filling with %100 members.

 

[Dave242]

Possibly a creative format of events might work. The idea is to find a very fun and different format to run 3-4x per year. This might introduce the benefits of PDGA membership in different and maybe more attractive way.

A weekend format I used several years ago that I really liked (as did the participants) was not used for the same purpose you need it to.....but it might work well.

Saturday - PDGA C-tier event (or even D-tier for your purposes....if that is even still available)
Sunday - Skins tournament

All added cash is to the skins tournament.

Players can play both or either event, but players get into the Sunday skins at half price (pros) and free (ams) if they played Saturday.

Skins groups are determined by finish on Saturday* - best scores get grouped in highest skins 4-some. The highest skins 4-some has the highest skins value. The lowest group has the least added (they are simply playing for their entry fee and the entry fees of the 3 others).
(* if players are only there Sunday they get inserted into a 4-some by their current rating, so a close estimate based on their normal score at a known course).

This is an overview of the basic gist - I can send you a document where it is outlined in more detail if you want.

 

[GAMBLE]

Ratings can be a big motivator to play sanctioned events, most people who play PDGA events like to see how their rating stacks up to other players and how it changes over time. It also helps to market it as a $10 discount for PDGA membership rather than as an added fee.

they have ratings with So national too. I actually like the way they track finishing 1,2nd 3rd better than PDGA's system.



The PDGA fails at getting more casual people motivated and involved. You just cant get people to pay $40 for a rec round where they win a trophy. They must do something about Novice and Juniors or South National will grow at their expense.

My suggestion is to encourage more two course tournies. Make them easier to host and cheaper with an emphasis on getting novice players.

i can get my friends interested in disc golf but they get killed in PDGA rec and discouraged. There needs to be something to bridge Novice, juniors and women until they are good. Make them $5 until they are good enough to move up. The reason this doesnt happen is because the 1 course tournies are looking to sell out and dont want to lose spots to low paying players. Thats why you never even see novice available online registration.

More players that play, best for the sport, period. Very few will ever play pros, so why cater to them so much? We could be making more pros?

it is ridiculous that my gf cant play at a lower level for a reasonable price. This prevents me making some tournies.

there are so many courses near eachother. hell they could grab a 9 hole course and make it womans novice and mens novice. Just let them play and let them play for cheap.

I play pdga every weekend in dallas. if i lived in the deep south i would be playing so national, its the only game in town. I bet there isnt 50 pdga members in the entire state of mississppi, and not cause they dont have good courses.


Also I dont mind paying $40 myself, but im super into the sport.

They must come up with a plan to make these tournies larger and cheaper for novice, they would ultimately get the same amount if they did. I know running them would be tougher but if there are ways to make this balance out.

There is a huuge disconnect between the casual player and the PDGA player and the PDGA does almost nothing to bridge that gap. Eventually, like in bowling or tennis, someone will bridge that gap, or another sport will. Its inexcusable to have so few juniors playing a sport where they can show up fro free and play but thats the reality when you overcharge and discourage them holding out for pro/advanced signups. Every weekend ten of my friends would be in a tourney if they had a reason to bring their kids. Put them on a 9 holer somewhere for christ sakes. Relax some of teh stupid rules and charge them $5.

 

[GAMBLE]

Possibly a creative format of events might work. The idea is to find a very fun and different format to run 3-4x per year. This might introduce the benefits of PDGA membership in different and maybe more attractive way.

A weekend format I used several years ago that I really liked (as did the participants) was not used for the same purpose you need it to.....but it might work well.

Saturday - PDGA C-tier event (or even D-tier for your purposes....if that is even still available)
Sunday - Skins tournament

All added cash is to the skins tournament.

Players can play both or either event, but players get into the Sunday skins at half price (pros) and free (ams) if they played Saturday.

Skins groups are determined by finish on Saturday* - best scores get grouped in highest skins 4-some. The highest skins 4-some has the highest skins value. The lowest group has the least added (they are simply playing for their entry fee and the entry fees of the 3 others).
(* if players are only there Sunday they get inserted into a 4-some by their current rating, so a close estimate based on their normal score at a known course).

This is an overview of the basic gist - I can send you a document where it is outlined in more detail if you want.

any ideas are good ideas at this point.


i cant see a single reason why to hold a pdga event there

 

[GAMBLE]

so nat even links to pdga's website. cant imagine pdga doing the same.

http://www.sndg.org/tourn.php

 

[DavidSauls]

Gamble, I'd think sanctioned league play is a start in the direction of friendlier, low-cost competition for novices & juniors.

But the driving force on whether there are low-cost novice and junior divisions, or 2-course tournaments, isn't the PDGA. It's the locals who run the tournaments. The PDGA makes those divisions available, and has no say in the cost of entry or the courses they're held on.

 

[Redneck Machismo]

Perhaps the reason they don't want to join the PDGA is because the PDGA is a dismal failure. It is ran in dictator like fashion and the "executive director," as far as I can tell, does nothing other than show up at larger tournaments and take pictures. A monument to an ego was created in the form of the IDGC which no one plays and is in the middle of no where. What percentage of the insanely high membership fee for the PDGA goes to pay the salary of the guy that is the "superintendent" of courses that no one ever plays? Why do you think there are so many C tiers? Nobody wants to send money to the PDGA because that is money that just disappears into the coffers of corruption. If one resided in Southern Nationals territory for what possible reason would you join the PDGA?

 

[Jay Dub]

The location of the IDGC and HOF is kind of curious. I would guess that location was chosen because the initial cost for that in that area might have been the best option they had....when looking at initial cost only. Just a guess.

Wouldn't a sport want it's HQ and HOF to be in a more congested area so it's more visible?
Why was that particular location chosen?
More traffic means more $$, I was at IDGC for 3 days and only ran into 3 other players on the courses the whole time.