[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[AndyJB]

Mike C, not Envy related, but I'd love to see you throw some forehand rollers and overhands with the Motion. I'm getting great results with it.

Envy related: at the Denver Classic this weekend I took fifth in MA2. First time I've ever "cashed" in MA2 and I credit a lot of it to my Envies. Here at Colorado elevation, they, as all discs, tend to be more OS. I finally beat my N Envy into that sweet spot that everyone has been talking about where it still has perfect HSS but almost no fade when thrown flat. I couple that with my fresh Watermelon Envy and I was killing it with that combo (for me, anyway) including a huge 150 foot birdie which is hands down my best tournament shot yet.

Everyone needs to put an Envy in the bag. It will change your game.

 

[Mike C]

I'll keep that in mind. I do enjoy the Motion for FH rollers, but don't do much OH for D, typically just for approach shots.

That's awesome to hear about your tourney results, congrats! I have a similar driving pair going on right now, my seasoned Proton paired with a fresh dyed Neutron that is my most OS one yet. Also have a 165 Soft for more touch approaches, and a second 165 S as my putter. Favorite disc in the bag, gotta have multiples

 

[Mike C]

Make sure to catch the ending

 

[ZAMson]

Nice! That Salted Slug dye is already getting worked out!

 

[Mike C]

Yep, loving that Envy.

Realized I made some mistakes. Taking this one down for now and re-uploading the fixed version later today :|

 

[Mike C]

 

[Fraser]

...and the form I've been working on for that shot is a lot different than when I try a Tesla power flick.

I use a shorter reach back, focus on being smooth and fluid, and emphasize the wrist a lot more than my entire arm. I try to do a casual one or two step on the tee and just give it a firm flick of the wrist with a bit of hyzer. I get much better results this way with a putter than going for a powerful arm swing like when I go for the max D driver shots.

I haven't read this thread in a while but when I ran across this post, I just had to emphasize it. This in my opinion is one of the (if not the most) important keys to having a controlled FH. The casual "walkup" gets your body and your weight shifting properly. Combining that with the shorter reach back and more pronounced wrist motion normalizes the spin/speed ratio to get a consistently longer and more controlled throw. It's also much easier this way to fix timing issues that you might have. This technique also helps develop your ability to range your throw much faster.

While I don't have Mike's distance (don't know about FH and definitely not BH), I have forehanded my Ions ~300' using the principles that Mike mentioned in his post. This technique works just as well with mids and fairways for throwing lower lines. For controlled-distance lines, I use essentially the same principles but I'll have a faster and wider gate in my run up, a longer reach back and more of a follow through. I still focus on the wrist more than anything else though. It's also a little harder to get the timing right on these throws. Last year, when I started really focusing on this technique, I was maxing out around 350' on a max-d line. This year I've been throwing ~380' on golf lines and I can't really remember the last time I threw a max-d line.

Now for the subject of this thread... I've been meaning to post here because I have been really enjoying my P Envy. I've been auditioning it for quite a while and although I don't use it as my putting putter, it's slowly kicking my non-putting Ions out of the bag. (I've tried putting with it but I have too much time invested, not to mention consistency, with my Ions.) I will say though that the Envy is quite a bit easier for me to drive with (BH). The lower profile helps my BH release. I haven't yet found a disc that I can't FH so it hasn't really been any easier to throw than anything else FH. But, it performs wonderfully FH.

I've ordered a couple more and want to beat the crap out of the one that I have to lose most of it's LSS. Once that happens, I doubt I'll have any reason to keep my driving Ions, except for my beat-to-snot Ion that has become flip-tastic. The Envy is definitely becoming a go-to.

 

[elmexdela]

Flick your Envy! I've been playing all Envy rounds lately and its killing me how easy some of these longer par 4's are in Charlotte if I just do a gentle Envy flick instead of trying to kill it with a Tesla. Actually got an eagle for my first time on a par 4 at my new home course with two Envy flicks

i am a fan of putter flicks as well. ive hit some pretty long approaches. its always intimidating to others having good control with a putter flick,

also michael i was kidding the other day i was just messing around. sorry for being a d bag

 

[Menacewarf]

FH

Definitely, and I had been among the guilty for some time.

In that Envy video I'm working on there will be a ton of 175-300' flicks with it, and the form I've been working on for that shot is a lot different than when I try a Tesla power flick.

I use a shorter reach back, focus on being smooth and fluid, and emphasize the wrist a lot more than my entire arm. I try to do a casual one or two step on the tee and just give it a firm flick of the wrist with a bit of hyzer. I get much better results this way with a putter than going for a powerful arm swing like when I go for the max D driver shots.

A agree with this and a post or two up from this one talking about the setup and being relaxed.

Again I want to emphasize what Mike said, if you are learning FH you should go with the assumption that their are two kinds of FH. Their is a power FH and their is finesse FH. I wouldn't bother trying to learn a power FH. The skills from a finess flick will inform a power flick but not as much vice versa.

For me the diffence is how it comes off my finger. A finesse flick should "Zings" of you pointer finger very lightly and in a way which will click the moment you do it (by this I mean you will feel you did something specific on the release, and you will notice how the disc flies). Again it's a very light touch. The way it zings off very lightly keeps the disc starting on a hyzer and with minimal oat.


The power flick is different and you actually releasing "through" the plain of the disc. I don't feel a zing on em but that's prolly why I can't get em out to 400.

Again focus on the finesse flick in your practices, but also don't be afraid to experiment with the power flick too. I have a FH shot with the resister which is almost a hybrid, more on the power side, that I use multiple times a round and is almost deadly. Might have more birdies this summer from that shot than anything else.

 

[Photoguy]

I hope you guys start a new thread with the FH discussion/tips. Too much good info there to leave it buried in the middle of a huge thread like this one.

 

[Menacewarf]

I hope you guys start a new thread with the FH discussion/tips. Too much good info there to leave it buried in the middle of a huge thread like this one.

I only give technique advice to MVP fans




(J/k)

 

[Mike C]

I hope you guys start a new thread with the FH discussion/tips. Too much good info there to leave it buried in the middle of a huge thread like this one.

I'll be starting a new thread on it soon. I'm going to make a video of me teaching myself LHFH from the ground up, with the goal being a controlled 200' finesse putter flick similar to what I just posted in the video. I'm going to discuss everything an absolute beginner with zero FH experience should focus on. I think it will be useful.

 

[SaltySlug]

Mike C, the new Envy video is awesome!

 

[Mike C]

Thanks! Really digging that neutron you dyed. Messed up my planned cycling in of the watermelons for now, but I'm okay with that

I'm really happy with the rollers I got out of it. Never saw myself putter rolling #1 and #18 at Winget like that.

 

[scotnt73]

Thanks! Really digging that neutron you dyed. Messed up my planned cycling in of the watermelons for now, but I'm okay with that

I'm really happy with the rollers I got out of it. Never saw myself putter rolling #1 and #18 at Winget like that.

That second roller that ran right up the tree line on the left was a thing of beauty:clap:

 

[mattc]

Ok I just dug my Envys back out.
I had taken them out of the bag because I had a hard time switching between them and my opto pure.
But I had a light bulb moment the other day on the course.
I don't power grip my opto pure very well, I always use a fan grip.
So I realized that for the shots that need that much sauce on them I could use the Envy in a power grip.
So i will try Opto Pure = fan, and Envy = power
Because I didn't like not having both.

 

[Photoguy]

So I decided I liked my 171 P Envy enough to try a 163 N. Perhaps hoping that the lighter weight would have a little less low speed fade or that the N plastic would beat out of it faster.

But then the next day after I ordered the 163, my local DG store (that has never carried envys) suddenly had two watermelons on the shelf (175 & 169).

I sure don't need three Envys. But still....watermelon!

 

[mick]

Mike C, the new Envy video is awesome!

I second that. Just watched it. Appropriate title for the video, I am envious :clap:

 

[Savage Henry]

So I decided I liked my 171 P Envy enough to try a 163 N. Perhaps hoping that the lighter weight would have a little less low speed fade or that the N plastic would beat out of it faster.

But then the next day after I ordered the 163, my local DG store (that has never carried envys) suddenly had two watermelons on the shelf (175 & 169).

I sure don't need three Envys. But still....watermelon!

Your thinking is correct. Get the big melon.

 

[Mike C]

Who can resist big melons

Turned another friend on to the Envy today. He hadn't tried driving putters much but after watching me throe my 175 P all day he decided to try it out.