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Call It The Players Disc Golf Association

Jay Dub

Jay Dub

* Ace Member *
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,325
Location
SW Ohio
This guy put a lot of thought into this article, a little too much imo. So I copied the wrap up here because it's takes a couple minutes to find what his point is. :)

https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2020...9WURlh4bWpwLBT7No43PgkTbrTj6NUWhdMggEih8jCC3E

November 17, 2020 by Craig Smolin

TLDR:
All of this brings us to a somewhat logical conclusion: the PDGA ought to step back from dedicating resources to the National Tour and the promotion of professional disc golf and allow the DGPT to advance this sport to the next level. The Players Disc Golf Association should continue to promote and grow the sport at the local and regional levels, assist tournament directors (and compensate them for their "volunteerism" – that's an essay for another time), provide sanctioning and insurance for A-, B-, and C-tier events, and continue to hold the PDGA World Championships.

Soon enough, the pool of elite players will expand (it's only a matter of time before an Olympic caliber athlete chooses disc golf), the outside money shows up, and the PDGA will be overwhelmed as it's currently constituted. Setting up the DGPT now to run a single tour expressly geared towards our very best players benefits everyone. Players will know which events to play to maximize their earning potential, fans will have a single tour to follow via existing disc golf media outlets, and those outside looking in will know exactly how to enter our community.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with the last paragraph. Disc golf has been 5 years from "making it big" since I joined in the late 80s.
 
Jay Dub said:
This guy put a lot of thought into this article, a little too much imo. So I copied the wrap up here because it's takes a couple minutes to find what his point is. :)

https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2020...9WURlh4bWpwLBT7No43PgkTbrTj6NUWhdMggEih8jCC3E

November 17, 2020 by Craig Smolin

TLDR:


I completely disagree with the last paragraph. Disc golf has been 5 years from "making it big" since I joined in the late 80s.
Click to expand...

I also completely disagree with the last paragraph. I have maintained that disc golf is neither interesting enough or watchable enough to make it big time.

Though, I completely agree that if all the things in the last paragraph come to fruition, the PDGA should get out of the national tour business. The players themselves should step up and take control of it. There is still a ton of non elite local pro player that need the PDGA and always will.
 
This is another idea that bubbles up in someone's head on a fairly regular basis.

My feeling is that if the time ever comes, it'll be the pro tour separating itself from the PDGA, not the PDGA severing it. But to steal a line from someone else, we've been 5 years away from the big time for 30 years now.

One kernel that might happen sooner: If the DGPT continues to grow and expand, the NT may fade away. The PDGA might sanction one or more Elite-tier series, without needing to run one.

Footnote: It's also been said that PDGA means a Professional Association of Disc Golf, and not the Association of Professional Disc Golfers. The "P" describes the organization, not its members.
 
This suggestion seems to come up a lot but I don't understand what the argument for it is based on. Why would having separate entities do the job better? If there are specific issues why can't the PDGA expand their capabilities and resolve those issues just as easily as a separate entity would do? Should I just go and read the article to help me understand?

My guess is the reason people think it's a good model is because Golf and perhaps other currently successful sports follow that model.
 
I would wager that 2-3 years from now there will be no PDGA National Tour. The PDGA folding and the DGPT going all in in 2020 accelerated that process.

You guys who still discount the chances of pro dg 'blowing up" to a degree are not paying attention- it is already happening. I spent many years believing exactly as you do but my eyes tell me differently. The convergence of Covid and competent management of DGPT (with a budget) has sped up something that was already on its way. ESPN 2 is pretty darn "big time". I am involved in 2 different course projects where people from outside the sport are spending hundreds of thousands of their own dollars on disc golf. What other signatories of growth are needed?

As regards changing the name of the organization- some people have too much time on their hands. A name change would be waaaay more trouble than it would be worth.
 
biscoe said:
I would wager that 2-3 years from now there will be no PDGA National Tour. The PDGA folding and the DGPT going all in in 2020 accelerated that process.

You guys who still discount the chances of pro dg 'blowing up" to a degree are not paying attention- it is already happening. I spent many years believing exactly as you do but my eyes tell me differently. The convergence of Covid and competent management of DGPT (with a budget) has sped up something that was already on its way. ESPN 2 is pretty darn "big time". I am involved in 2 different course projects where people from outside the sport are spending hundreds of thousands of their own dollars on disc golf. What other signatories of growth are needed?

As regards changing the name of the organization- some people have too much time on their hands. A name change would be waaaay more trouble than it would be worth.
Click to expand...

The city north of me added a "!" to their name. That cost $10K. A few years later they took it off and wasted the same amount of money.

Yeah, this is more info than is available to me and obviously others.
I'll still wait and see if/when it happens. Each time it comes up there is someone who makes these points yet here we are.

I'm pushing the ESPN2 show on my FB page trying to get others to watch. The payoff for that won't happen right away so we'll see next year sometime how that went.
 
biscoe said:
I would wager that 2-3 years from now there will be no PDGA National Tour. The PDGA folding and the DGPT going all in in 2020 accelerated that process.

You guys who still discount the chances of pro dg 'blowing up" to a degree are not paying attention- it is already happening. I spent many years believing exactly as you do but my eyes tell me differently. The convergence of Covid and competent management of DGPT (with a budget) has sped up something that was already on its way. ESPN 2 is pretty darn "big time". I am involved in 2 different course projects where people from outside the sport are spending hundreds of thousands of their own dollars on disc golf. What other signatories of growth are needed?

As regards changing the name of the organization- some people have too much time on their hands. A name change would be waaaay more trouble than it would be worth.
Click to expand...

I don't see it. Removing DGPT, the entire foundation of the sport is built upon the backs and sweat of a volunteer army. Is the suggestion above, is that the sport will continue to attract tons of financial backers, to pay for course installation and upkeep, TD and staff employees for thousands of non elite tours and financial sponsorship of leagues nationwide? I would certainly not be interested in doing the work I do, to line the pockets of someone else. Nor am I into spending my time, to see the money bleed into any elite project, or for anything outside my immediate disc golf community. That might seem cold, but I am being honest. I am not sure many are REALLY that interested in seeing the sport grow.

Of course, I am not really that involved outside of my small world....so, I could be wrong.
 
Jay Dub said:
The city north of me added a "!" to their name. That cost $10K. A few years later they took it off and wasted the same amount of money.

Yeah, this is more info than is available to me and obviously others.
I'll still wait and see if/when it happens. Each time it comes up there is someone who makes these points yet here we are.

I'm pushing the ESPN2 show on my FB page trying to get others to watch. The payoff for that won't happen right away so we'll see next year sometime how that went.
Click to expand...

What is the ESPN2 show?
 
I guess another thing to consider is what's everyone's definition of "breaking it big".

Having a few backers outside of disc golf for golf courses is good but that's just a trickle.
 
Jay Dub said:
I guess another thing to consider is what's everyone's definition of "breaking it big".

Having a few backers outside of disc golf for golf courses is good but that's just a trickle.
Click to expand...

Y'all act as if there is going to be a giant road sign that says "Big Time- You Have Arrived."

I have spent many years in the volunteer trenches just as you have. I am involved in a lot of different aspects of the game and things have progressed to a point where course design is now how I make my living rather than something I beg a landowner for the right to do. The train is picking up speed quickly.

Does this mean that volunteerism at the grass roots level will not remain the keystone for growth? Of course not- all sports have volunteers at their base. Patrick Mahomes makes $45 million a year but I would imagine his earliest coaches in organized football were volunteers.

McBeth owns a McLaren.
 
Not looking for any sign. And McBeth owning that car could be written off as bad money management.
 
Good article, and I think disc golf is definitely entering a new era of broader engagement. I think there should be some healthy skepticism that the growth shown during COVID will continue to this degree, but I don't think things are going back to how they were a couple years ago.

Anecdotally: I run a facebook group for my local course. It's been a fairly active group for something like two years, maybe more. Since April, membership in the group has increased close to 130%.
 
Whether disc golf is on the cusp of making it big time or not doesn't affect me one whit. But more power to those who may benefit.
 
When the Pro side can self fund a stand alone organization (from sponsors, advertising dollars, ticket sales, etc...), I think we will see a split of some sort. But for now, the PDGA relies too much on the Am dollars (Am membership, "Am Scam" for tournaments, etc...) to be a pro only organization.
 
Jugular said:
This suggestion seems to come up a lot but I don't understand what the argument for it is based on. Why would having separate entities do the job better? If there are specific issues why can't the PDGA expand their capabilities and resolve those issues just as easily as a separate entity would do? Should I just go and read the article to help me understand?

My guess is the reason people think it's a good model is because Golf and perhaps other currently successful sports follow that model.
Click to expand...

That's my main argument as well. Even if there was a true split between PDGA and DGPT, where would the line be? There are thousands of tournaments every year under PDGA sanctioning that have professional players. Are the professional divisions of otherwise amateur tournaments going to be handled differently? Or what happens when Paul McBeth wants to play in a local PDGA B-tier after spending most of his year on the DGPT?

DGPT is doing a great job with their tournaments, but it's just a handful of tournaments catering to a handful of players. Even if the PDGA retires the NT and gives the reins of the professional circuit over to the DGPT, what good would it do them to break off from the PDGA? Would they have to write their own rulebook? Would they have to form their own competition committees? Would they have to start their own record keeping database? It seems like a lot of effort for very little tangible benefit.
 
It's obvious the DGPT/DGN is just utilizing the PDGA as a stepping stone as they solidify their brand. I think it's inevitable the DGPT/DGN will abandon the PDGA in coming years and more than likely move to an easier ranking system instead of ratings. While most ams don't like any of their membership funding the pro side of the sport, I don't see the PDGA ever abandoning pro players. Maybe the DGPT will have stricter requirements to qualify. PDGA pros may consider being able to play on the DGPT "going to the big show".
 
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