[Innova] champ sidewinder variations

[elmexdela]

note this thread is not meant to bash innova. we all know its hard to make a consistent disc and there is plenty of variables that play into molding. however it is not defending their inconsistencies either.

the sw is one of the first discs that taught me bh and fh.

so i used to love to throw my champ sidewinder. it was a regular rim flight numbers. could throw low hyzer flip lasers with it. get great turn overs. hell even throw it on a hyzer and would somewhat hold it. great all around go to driver. you could out some mustard behind it and know it wont turn and burn ( kind of how a fury does) unfortunately then i lost it on a blind shot one day. and i havent found a replacement since.

anyways recently i have been looking for a disc that is just like the old ones they used to produce. i dont like throwing oop. i like going to buy one off the shelf and knowing it will fly the same as my old one.

old PFN-blunt ish nose. straight rim. understable. low plh

FN- stable (netural), big fade, slanted rims high plh. slim nose

JL-highest plh, going to test it tomorrow. somewhat bluntish nose

here is the PFN (left) vs FN (right)

here is PFN (left) vs JL (right)

here is FN (left) vs JL (right)

so just a few questions to start off.

what other discs have the same kind of rim as a sidewinder that i could try?

do the star sw have any variations like this such as slanted rims, or change of nose bluntness? comparing it to the PFN sidewinder

whats everyone elses experience with the sw?

 

[Taylor]

Try a Millennium QOLS. You'll like it.

 

[StuMagoo]

I've only really thrown PFN champs and a couple PFN stars. Both have the same nose/PLH but one is significantly more beat than the other and I use it for rollers/tailwinds/hyzer flip turnovers. The more stable one I use is just a straight laser. Holds any line I put on it.

I've heard some of the newer runs fly like a completely different mold with a higher PLH and diff looking wing. I haven't thrown any current runs to verify this. Hopefully it's not the case because I love me some $idewinders. Hopefully the new G*'s fly like a sidewinder should.

 

[StuMagoo]

I want to say the AMP is MVP's sidewinder.

 

[tu-f-o]

amp is not a sw.
I've also only thrown PFN star and champ. well i've thrown FN star, which is a bit more overstable, which I kinda like.

champs i'm not sure how they differ, but the PFN are good.

 

[coldsweat]

Opto saint. A little on the lighter side.

 

[mattc]

I have a stack of different Sidewinders that I haven't thrown in a long time.
It was my first driver, and accumulated a few different ones.
(Did the same with Valkyries)
I will have to dig them out, and look at them.

 

[elmexdela]

would love to see the star comparisons

 

[Puckstopper]

Due to similar issues with how the various Sidewinders I had over the years flew I retired Sidewinders in favor of Avenger SS's, and retired the Avenger SS in favor of the Mongoose.

 

[elmexdela]

Due to similar issues with how the various Sidewinders I had over the years flew I retired Sidewinders in favor of Avenger SS's, and retired the Avenger SS in favor of the Mongoose.

what does the mongoose rim look like? is it pointy at all? is it comfortable for flicks

 

[PRES 10]

Try out a MVP inertia, it's very much like a sidewinder but might be a tick faster.

 

[mattc]

i have since switched to saints/fury combo

 

[elmexdela]

i have since switched to saints/fury combo

i throw saints. i tried the fury but as someone else described its really a finesse disc. i cant put any mustard on it. take some power off and you have a good hyzer flip or turn over control driver. but the old sidewinders i could really put some power behind it and it would take it like a champ

 

[mattc]

i throw saints. i tried the fury but as someone else described its really a finesse disc. i cant put any mustard on it. take some power off and you have a good hyzer flip or turn over control driver. but the old sidewinders i could really put some power behind it and it would take it like a champ

You might like the Hatchet better than the Fury.

 

[Puckstopper]

what does the mongoose rim look like? is it pointy at all? is it comfortable for flicks

I'll get pics of my Mongoose tonight. It is not an overly pointy rim, and while I haven't flicked it, I can't foresee any issues doing so.

 

[elmexdela]

You might like the Hatchet better than the Fury.

can you power the hatchet then im assuming?

 

[ncgamedog]

I want to follow/add to this thread....

I've recently started throwing SWs and the 1st I bagged I fell in love with, and have been collecting up some, what I thought to be, backups.

I picked up the 1st one at PIAS. It was a 9/10 (w/ ink) PFN, Pre "www", Pearly, Champ @ 171g. It was a slight dome to it, and a concave (teebird-ish) wing. That thing is Stable, Completely Neutral! I can throw it full power with a slight hyzer release and it will simply flip flat and ride a lazer beam straight line for a looooong way! I love using it for long tunnel shots and placement shots. The wind only slightly effects it, and it really likes a tailwind. The only time I see any fade from it is when I get it up high or with a strong tailwind.

It quickly became a go-to/confidence control driver for me, so I instantly knew I needed backups.
I lucked into an X-out matching the same description at PIAS, that only has a touch more dome.

I also wanted a few more, so I picked up some off the forums that I believe to be older, bc the plastic feels more like early 11x type. I'm guessing these are from around 2004/2005. These are very flat, which I thought I would like, but they are max weight and flippy as crap! Both are brand new 10/10 (well I guess, 9/10 now that Ive tossed them in the field)

I thought maybe the GStar ones would be a good production replacment, so I picked up a 171g and 175g. Those are also super flippy. Now that being said, they will ride the longest HUGE turnover line I have ever thrown lol, but I dont really find myself needing big turnover shots often, certianly that my Leopard wont reach.

Now for the questions...

1) Which of my SWs are the way a SW "is supposed to fly" ??
2) I fondled a couple of the current production champ (JL?) and they do feel completely different, and I noticed the different wing. Being straighter/slanted more like a leopard or roadrunner, I assumed they would more US, so I left them on the shelf. Would they actually make a good replacment for the ones I like?

I just want that flip-to-flat and bomb out that I'm used to. A couple of my buddies I play with noticed me throwing a new mold and crushing some lasers with it, and asked "What is that??!". When I told them it was an old SW, they were like "NO WAY! Those are stupid flippy!". I said "this one's not!" and they told me, "just wait, once it beats in a little it will be". Well, since I use it a lot for wooded tight tunnels, it has taken some pretty strong hits, and its has yet to change its flight. It still maintains that great laser line.

I did throw a very light (158-162-ish) Hatchet that a buddy let me try. I only threw it w a decent tailwind, but it did seem to have a similar flight. Not sure it was as fast or covered as much distance as my SW though.

I need something in that control driver speed range, bc I dont want to overlap my FWs. Those molds are set.

3) Do I simply just need to look for PFN Champs that are Domey?

I do have a couple PFN stars in max weight that are new, but I havent tried them yet. They do have a slight dome, but not quite as much as my two favorite champs.

Sorry for the long post, but this exact topic has been on my mind recently.

Hopfully its not seen as a hy-jack.

 

[ncgamedog]

^^ Also wanted to add that I did bag an Opto Fury for a little while, but it was basically a BH roller. It was more like a faster Roadrunner w a little more glide maybe. So I know the Fury is not really a solution for me.

I've also tried lots of flavors of Valks, but I just cant bond with that mold. I never get the same flight twice out of a Valk.

 

[whentherainscome]

I switched away from SWs too. I have 3 in my bin, all are FN, + mold. I figure that way, at least they're consistent. Gotta watch for those +molds for sure.

The OLS (never thrown one myself) is a better bet simply because they don't have many runs. First run QOLS's are fairly common as well.

I switched to Roadrunners. Max weight Champ for long straight hyzerflips, and 170ish Star for turnovers.

 

[ncgamedog]

I'll look for an OLS. My PIAS seems to have lots of used Millenium.
The RRs are turn-&-burners for me.

Thanks for the tip on the +molds! I hate those dang things. IMO, that was a mean and nasty trick that Innova did. All +molds should have a big red stamp that clearly says its a +.