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[Innova] Classic aviar

Serious question: Is there any difference between the DX P & A and the Classic Aviar other than the stamp? They are both beadless, both DX...back in the day the P & A stamp plastic was softer than the grid stamp plastic, but I don't think that is the case anymore. Are they just the same thing with different stamps?

disclaimer: I have not held both at the same time, so I could be very wrong.
 
Three Putt said:
Serious question: Is there any difference between the DX P & A and the Classic Aviar other than the stamp? They are both beadless, both DX...back in the day the P & A stamp plastic was softer than the grid stamp plastic, but I don't think that is the case anymore. Are they just the same thing with different stamps?

disclaimer: I have not held both at the same time, so I could be very wrong.
Click to expand...

You hear people say that the classics are more stiff than the regular PnA aviars. I think Dave Dunipace even mentions it in one of the SpinTV videos. I'm not really an aviar man myself, so I can't really confirm or deny this

edit: found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tw0KLPZRI
 
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Three Putt said:
Serious question: Is there any difference between the DX P & A and the Classic Aviar other than the stamp? They are both beadless, both DX...back in the day the P & A stamp plastic was softer than the grid stamp plastic, but I don't think that is the case anymore. Are they just the same thing with different stamps?

disclaimer: I have not held both at the same time, so I could be very wrong.
Click to expand...

"About the Classic Aviar: The Classic Aviar is the original model that gave rise to all other Aviars. The Classic is our straightest flying Aviar model from start to finish. It is made in a firm plastic with a good grip. Like all other Aviar models it is reliable and dependable in all conditions. " From Innova's website

The Classic is listed as having a 2,3,0,0 for flight numbers and the P&A has 2,3,0,1.

I don't have one to hold or look at to figure out what is different.
 
GerryJarcia said:
You hear people say that the classics are more stiff than the regular PnA aviars. I think Dave Dunipace even mentions it in one of the SpinTV videos. I'm not really an aviar man myself, so I can't really confirm or deny this

edit: found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tw0KLPZRI
Click to expand...
Lol at the huge poptop on that Star Aviar Driver. They couldn't find a decently molded one for the video?
 
they are different molds and the classics are generally harder but the recent runs aren't very stiff in comparison, but both are beadless. from my experience the classic aviar is very neutral and wont really turnover they will just drift over but that is once they are pretty beat up. I imagine new it would be straight and could handle some power very well. but very straight putter. much easier to make go straight than a normal dx pna aviar
 
I don't know...I've held a Classic Aviar and I've held a DX P & A. It wasn't a dramatic difference IMO, more like the common variation between firm and soft that you get with DX. I really see no reason for them to make both.
 
rocthecourse said:
A quick look at the specs shows the Aviar Classic and P&A having the same measurements. Though the Classic might have a blunter nose(?)

Original- this one is stiffer than the other two.
http://discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=1880

Retool
http://discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=1881

P&A
http://discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=1886
Click to expand...
Eh, back in the 90's the big bead and small bead had similar noses, the bead was just a different size. They don't make that big bead anymore; it was converted to the Aviar X which is the big bead mold they use now. The Aviar X is the one with the blunt nose. The small bead P & A was converted to beadless and the nose is more or less the same as The Aviar nose has been. The Classic Aviar is the beadless mold, so it's should not have the blunt Aviar X nose.
 
I own a grid aviar (aka the classic) and a PnA. I have found without a doubt that the classic aviar has far less fade than the PnA mold even when fresh. When thrown without OAT I have found mine to be surprisingly HSS with a flight that simply hovers gently to the ground.

The plasic is indeed stiffer. I actually prefer beaded putters due to the way they release from my grip but otherwise it's a very cool putter. The profile as compared to the PnA is very similar.

Honestly I don't see what the PnA mold offers over the classic mold other than some more stability or something. I figure why not use the BB at that point but I understand some people prefer unbeaded.
 
Straight, straight, straight. Perfect for the push putt. It's stiffer than the P&A I tried, yet grips the chains nicely.

But don't take my word for it. Let the 2013 USDGC champion describe it at 55 seconds into this video.
 
I really don't get it. If these discs fly like they are being described, why would anybody buy a P&A? If you want a softer putter with fade, get a JK and call it a day.
 
i have two grid aviars that are very stiff, but both have big beads.
san marino mint, never threw em so i can't comment on flight. but some do have beads and others do not.
 
I was using a classic Aviar for a few months til the Nova kicked it out of my bag. Good HSS, not a lot of fade, does elevator/air bounce shots very well an holds hyzers and anhyzers very well.

I don't the beadless/glidey discs for putting though.
 
I've thrown both extensively. New and old.

I'm not sure if it's a mental thing but I think that the Classic's are just a tick shallower. Every P&A that I've picked up has felt just a tad deeper which keeps me going back to the Classics.
 
Three Putt said:
I really don't get it. If these discs fly like they are being described, why would anybody buy a P&A? If you want a softer putter with fade, get a JK and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Innova has had the Aviar naming scheme screwed up for so long....

All the base plastic aviars available today i'm pretty sure are exactly the same, just different stamps. Used to, the putt and approach stamp was for the small bead and the classic grid stamp for beadless. JK and KC for people that wanted the big bead blunt nose. Even the dx big beads that I see today are the aviar-x nose.

So TLDR: There is only the big bead aviar-x mold and the classic no bead mold in current production. As far as I can tell the different stamps are there to confuse the crap out of people. Just like the EL, SL, FL and.... maybe Innova just likes confusing people
 
tu-f-o said:
i have two grid aviars that are very stiff, but both have big beads.
san marino mint, never threw em so i can't comment on flight. but some do have beads and others do not.
Click to expand...
What you have are 90's big bead Aviars. They have the grid stamp so they can be confused as a "Classic Aviar." They are not.

Actually they are a "classic" Aviar. Just not a "Classic Aviar." :|

Anyway, the old 90's big bead grid stamps are still what I throw, so I really don't have a dog in this hunt until I run out of them.

I just don't get having a Classic Aviar, then an Aviar P&A, then a Yeti Pro Aviar when they are all so close to each other. People are buying them, so whatever.
 
Here are some comparisons of the current runs of the Avair P&a and the Grid Stamp Avair:

I have only been playing for a short while and I am not versed in all things Avair history.

The Avair P&A has a lower shoulder with a flatter top than the Grid Avair.

The Grid Avair has a slight upward flight plate. Just a little rise not domey.

The PLH on the P&A is just slightly higher than the Grid Avair.

The wing or edge of the disc (where it fits the hand) has an angled edge like a Mako, Skeeter, or Dart.

While the Grid Avair has a slight bevel/curve on its edge.

Plastic wise the Avair P&A feels like DX plastic that is moderately firm but, not overly stiff.

The Grid Avair is a very firm feeling plastic, the flight plate is more solid. This disc doesn't give too easily when it is flexed from the edge to edge like a taco.

I will try to snap some profile pics and post them tomorrow. Hope this helps.
 
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