Disc Prices Out of Control

[Jukeshoe]

Let's play devil's advocate a bit.

They're still hippies at heart.

That's even worse!

GET 'EM!!

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I wish I wasn't so lazy. I'd be profiting off this if I listed some plastic on the Book lol

I have a calendar reminder in my phone that's been going off every day for like a year and a half to "take pics of discs to sell"... Never happens. :doh:

 

[ru4por]

If I find a disc I really like I'll buy a couple, but I said years ago I'd never pay more than $25 for a disc, ever. To me, no disc is that special or worth that much to my game - I can always find something that is more readily available and make it work. I also have plenty of backstock of discs that I do throw a lot so I don't have to buy anything if I don't need to. The biggest problem in our sport right now is that people really believe it matters that they bag/throw a certain specific limited model and they can't play without it. If a disc (like the mantis) becomes unavailable at normal stock levels, I'm finding something else and not caring one bit about moving on.

I cannot "like" this enough.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I have a calendar reminder in my phone that's been going off every day for like a year and a half to "take pics of discs to sell"... Never happens. :doh:

Guy going by the name "Built Too Long" has a reminder to post disc pix.

 

[dehaas]

That's a valid point - but if you've been paying close attention, this was already becoming a problem before covid. Of course we don't know the players contractual obligations, but I think it would be safe to assume that whatever quota they need to fulfill for either tour series or limited event discs doesn't (or shouldn't, at least) impact the manufacturing process so much that they can't produce stock discs at some sustainable volume as well. I mean, didn't Discraft buy 10 new molding machines when they signed the $10M McBeth deal? There's no way that additional capacity is being taken up just by tour series and LIO discs.

It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Innova or Discraft. Purely from an efficiency perspective it'd make sense to run all the tour series stuff at one time and then just spread the releases out over time. No clue if they do it that way or not. Ledgestone is interesting though because didn't they say last year (and I'd assume this year also?) that every disc in their lineup is getting a release of some type? Kinda cool concept but sounds terribly inefficient.

I do recall seeing something about DC adding extra molding capacity, as I'm sure they expected signing McBeth would massively increase sales. I honestly have no idea what a realistic number is for how many discs can be produced by one machine in one minute. Gotta figure pellets have to heat, get injected, and then cool enough to be pulled from the mold. Any swirling process probably adds to that cycle time, same for halo and other fancy plastic blends? So less efficient than anything stock. I'm could be way off, but 3 discs a minute sounds reasonable, maybe more towards 5-6 with ideal circumstances if certain blends heat and cool faster than others.

It'd also be really interesting to see how many machines the larger companies actually have up and running. I've been in the back molding area at Gateway a handful of times and want to think they had at least 2 machines, maybe 3. Obviously Innova or DC are going to be exponentially larger. A couple of those times Dave Mac was actually there, kinda neat hearing him ramble on about whatever mystery blend of plastic he was experimenting with at the time and hand you a disc off the cooling table that was still warm.

For all we know also the manufacturers could be bottlenecked on pellets also. I'd imagine the volume of pellets they purchase compared to other industries puts them lower on the priority list with their suppliers. There was rumor of Vibram possibly getting involved in dg again. It would be really interesting to see how they'd fit in to the current scene, especially without Steve Dodge.

 

[dehaas]

That's even worse!

GET 'EM!!

Ha absolutely nothing wrong with hippies.

The most recent in the bag with Dave D has him in his mini van. People want to paint the picture that he's this cutthroat soulless businessman. He's just like the rest of us and likes to drink beer and watch frisbees fly.

 

[art_vandelay]

There was rumor of Vibram possibly getting involved in dg again. It would be really interesting to see how they'd fit in to the current scene, especially without Steve Dodge.

That rumor came from the guy whose job it is to figure out what to do with the large amounts of waste rubber left over from the shoe sole manufacturing process. Once the pile of waste gets big enough (or they run out of space) the idea of molding disc golf discs starts looking better and better. :gross:

 

[Dcinmd]

Let's play devil's advocate a bit.

Everybody here has specifically cited tour series discs and Ledgestone releases as the biggest offenders.

Anybody think those are prioritized because the manufacturers are contractually obligated to produce them? Those contracts don't care about the perfect storm resulting from Covid.

Yes, limited releases make it easier for them to be taken advantage on the secondary market. Yes, it sucks when limited releases are gone within minutes.

I think y'all are giving too much evil billionaire credit to the manufacturers. They're still hippies at heart.

I have seen 10 to 15 year old used stock ESP Avenger SS listed for $30+. It not just the signature series that have gotten out of control.

Last fall was a pain in the neck to replace that disc.

Looking right now I see Stock Z listed for 39.99 plus 5.50 shipping. 5X mcBeth listed at $40 plus 5.95 shipping. Glo listed at $45 free shipping "old school rare".

 

[BillFleming]

One thing that I don't get is the Halo stuff.

So they are supposed to be more stable. Great. If you are out there pushing 6 bills and flipping Destroyers, it makes sense that you would want a more stable Destroyer. But why would anybody pay a premium for a more stable version of something like a Tern or a Sidewinder? Why not just buy a more stable mold?

Oh man, I so much want a Halo Sidewinder. But I'm not going to pay the prices asked. I picked one up a while back from USWDGC (forget the website/company that was selling them) and loved the flight of it. It took over the place of my regular Sidewinder....and then, I lost it. Haven't gotten it back, so I've written it off as a loss. But, I only paid $25 for it. I felt that was worth it....but, $30 or more....I don't need one that bad. I wouldn't have paid $25 for it, but it was okay this time as I was also supporting the USWDGC and getting a cool disc.

 

[Future_Primitive]

For all we know also the manufacturers could be bottlenecked on pellets also. I'd imagine the volume of pellets they purchase compared to other industries puts them lower on the priority list with their suppliers.

:thmbup: I think you are on to some of it, like a perfect storm of events has led to a temporary shortage of plastic. Hard for clubs to buy any discs from manufacturers now, they piece them out a little at a time even stock stamps. The shutdowns in Michigan slowed production, the pandemic made more people get into outdoor activities like disc golf creating a boom. A lot of plastic sold and not enough being made to replace it. Innova/Discraft have to produce tour discs for their player and produce enough plastic to supply large events they host. Imagine that gets first priority and then filling store and club orders after that. I know we cancelled two annual events due to lack of plastic, surely others are in a similar boat?

Sellers market, if you want to unload plastic now is the time. On the other hand might be a good time to season in the ones you got and wait for production to catch back up and prices hopefully fall back down.

 

[Dingus]

I thought the manufacturers were supposedly exiting the bottleneck? Wasn't MVP supposed to have some huge shipment go out recently? If it did I missed it, I need an Entropy bad!

 

[Keller]

Infinite is now selling X-Outs over the price I can get a new non-x-out at Marshall st.

 

[wims]

Paying a premium for an x-out makes no sense. It's like paying a premium on your new car just because the car factory ran out of paint while they were painting and you now got a half painted one

 

[davetherocketguy]

I really enjoy reading online (particularly Facebook) all the commentary about disc prices. Makes me realize really quick who slept through ECON 101 and who did not.

 

[art_vandelay]

Infinite is at least trying to add value by slapping stamps over the F2 logo ones they get. My favorite is the stamp that says "It's okay to be alone". Okay but I give it a big WTF....

 

[kevdiv48]

I really enjoy reading online (particularly Facebook) all the commentary about disc prices. Makes me realize really quick who slept through ECON 101 and who did not.

Majority of the DG population did not even sit in an Econ 101 class :|.

 

[ru4por]

With a little different spin. My club has been forced out of player pack discs this year. Initially hard to get discs and now they have become too costly. We have had to become a bit more creative in filling player packs with different goodies.

 

[JRW III]

Classic supply and demand.

Supply had many disruptions during COVID (forced closures, raw plastic, labor, etc..). Many industries, not just disc manufacturing, are still feeling the effects.

At the same time that supply was limited, demand EXPLODED. The increase in the sport has been amazing. Tons of new players wanting new discs.

Many of the manufacturers are having a difficult time keeping up with the demand. They are having to do things like limit molds they run to focus on the most popular discs to keep them out there.

The retailers have been in a tough spot. At a time when demand has increased, and they can sell more, they get throttled by the manufactures. It has been very hard for many of them to get the inventory in.

As to the crazy high prices being paid for the collector type discs, I don't get it. When the 4x Buzzz prices got too high, I sold my back ups, bought new regular stock ones and then pocketed the profit. My game isn't good enough to notice the difference between the two Buzzz.

 

[dehaas]

What I think is funny is how current limited release stuff which is made in way larger quantities is fetching more than stuff that is legit collectible.

 

[jakebake91]

I really enjoy reading online (particularly Facebook) all the commentary about disc prices. Makes me realize really quick who slept through ECON 101 and who did not.

It's also very evident who has a grasp on how manufacturing and supply chains work, and how enormous and abrupt changes in the status quo really throws things out of whack.

Example that annoys the heck outta me:
Michigan manufacturers were shut down completely for months during the pandemic. People know this and still ask "but they just bought a few new molding machines, so why aren't things back to normal yet?"