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Diving for discs- do you call the owner?

Are you obligated to call the owner of a disc you find in the water?

  • Yes

    Votes: 93 69.4%
  • No

    Votes: 41 30.6%

  • Total voters
    134
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Good point harr0140, but obviously you would tell them that this was your disc. I'm coming from the point of view of some dude with a bag trying to pawn them off at your local course, or in my case, probably at some random street corner.

MONDO
 
Thinking like a criminal . . . why wouldnt they just sharpie over the info, that would disconnect them from the actual owner.
 
While I agree that it is immoral and it should not occur, it is not technically stealing. As far as I know every state in the US has an abandonment provision stating that if property is abandoned and recovered by someone else, it is not considered "stolen". Calling the law would not help. Unfortunately we will just have to let karma take its course on those that practice this disgrace.

The legal definition of abandonment is "the absolving of ownership due to to the willful leaving of property in a public place".
The thing is, for property to be truly considered abandoned, there has to be willful intent by the person who put it there to not recover it. Nobody intends to throw their disc into a pond. In fact the primary rationale of putting your name and phone# on a disc implies that if it is ever lost, you're trying to leave some means by which it can be returned to you.

And there are a number of scenarios where you could make an argument that a disc lying in a pond is NOT abandoned. If I throw a disc into a pond during a tournament, I just can't stop and hold everyone up to retrieve it. Even playing casually, if I throw a disc in, and after attempting unsuccessfully to retrieve it for half an hour, I decide to head home and get some waders, a rake or a net, even if its a few days after I threw it in, the fact is I'm still attempting to recover it.

Such property would be legally considered lost or misplaced, not necessarily abandoned until a certain degree of time has passed, and with lost or misplaced property there are legal distinctions on what the finder's rights are versus abandoned property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost,_mislaid,_and_abandoned_property

And just for the record, if it ever went to court, any lawyer (even a stupid one) would be able to argue that leaving a lost disc, even if searched for, is willful abandonment.
Yes, but considering what a lawyer services cost in relation to a golf disc, I don't think any party would be stupid enough to take this to court (at least I hope not). That really underscores the reason most players don't make any super effort to go after their waterborne discs. Its simply easier in terms of time, money and elbow grease to replace them.

And I really don't understand the motivations of people who fish discs out and either keep them for their own use, or to sell them to random strangers. That disc you find in the water may very well not be a good disc for you. Similarly, the person whose name is on that disc likely chose that specific mold and weight for a reason. They are going to probably going to give you a better reward for its return than eBay or Play It Again Sports will.

And just as I think its bad karma not to return found discs with names on them, I think its equally bad karma for the owner to not offer a reward to "fishermen" who make an effort to get it back to you. I will gladly pay $3-6 for a returned disc, or let the finder keep it.
 
What would happen if we started this discussion on a ball golf forum? People don't put their name and number on golf balls as far as I know. Is it because golf balls are cheaper? However, the price of some of them are getting to be a couple of dollars each now. (The list price for a Titleist Pro V1 is about $4 a ball, not too far off from the price of a DX disc!!!) Or is it the average ball golfer has more money than the average disc golfer and doesn't care about losing them?

Is there anything else in the world similar to putting your number on something, losing it, knowing that there is always a chance of that when you throw, and then hoping somebody else will find it and give it back?

The problem is that this concept is so rare that most people in the world just follow the "finders-keepers" rule, especially in the realm of a sports where items can get lost. I find baseballs and tennis balls at parks all the time, none have ever had a number on them, because nobody puts numbers on them. Same with a $5 spinner bait stuck in a tree at the lake.

Has anybody picked up money off the ground before? It doesn't belong to you. But there is no phone number on it. Do you just leave it there thinking the true owner may come back in a few days looking for it?
 
Next time I find an unmarked disc in a pond I am throwing it back in to avoid the bad karma that might occur if I keep a disc that is not mine. But what if I get bad karma for putting it back where I found it instead of placing it on shore in an obviously visible location only to have somebody else take it...

(And if anybody has lost their sense of humor in this discussion- hopefully you labeled it too, so if I happen to find it in a pond I can call you and make sure you get it back!) :)
 
10 more votes and we just may have an actual statistic here.


I am a firm believer that you should be making an effort to get a disc back to a person.

HOWEVER,
It should not cost you anything except a little time. If the person wants the disc, they should come get it, have put somewhere for them to get it, or pay to have it shipped.

I also don't think you should have to spend hours trying to contact the person either. If their info is easy enough to get hold of them, then by all means you need to try!

BUT
I am not about to ask every player I run into if they know who this stupid looking logo or first name belongs to. You either care enough to put an email or phone number on it or not. The PDGA # thing is irritating to me, due to having to go look crap up....it would have been just as easy to put an email or phone number on it if this disc means that much to you.

SO
Some of this responsibility belongs to YOU who mark your discs.

Like I have said before, I really do care and want to get a person's disc back to them...but don't make me work at it...otherwise, you can GO spend another 15 bucks and buy another disc.
 
LOL at quoting wikipedia for legal issues...
I realize not everything on there is Gospel (neither is everything on non-wiki sites for that matter), but if you want to provide a link to concise information in one place, explained in layman's terms, its the quickest place to go. One can always investigate further and go read the dry legalese for their specific jurisdiction.
 
my point was that wiki is fine for a casual definition, but it is user-created...and i have seen loads of mis-information on there...
 
If there is information on the disc that would allow me to contact the owner of the disc, I would make an effort to contact the owner. Most of the discs I have ever found have little or no owner info. So far, I have never had enough information to track anyone down. What ya gonna do?

I have never been contacted for any discs I have lost. Not that I expect it since all of my losses are usually quite far out in the water on lakes. I'm talkin' scuba territory so I don't believe I will ever get them back.

I believe if you want someone to attempt to return your discs, you have to give them the opportunity. If they don't, they don't. I don't have my phone number on my discs but I am going to add it. I would hope someone would at least try to contact me and I would be appreciate the effort.
 
I would like to see a bulletin board at my course where you could sign up lost disc on the hole it was lost and put you name and number. I do wonder if this would just encourage people to goto those holes to find the lost disc and keep it. OOO there's a disc on hole 5 lets go look for it! Maybe there could be a column for a reward amount, that might get you your disc back. As long as you give more than they could sell if for at play-it-again.
 
All I am saying about the law thing is simply this: If you throw a disc in the water and leave it. Late on some guy gets it out...you see him with it a few weeks later. If you ask for it back and he says "no, I found it". Sure, you're going to be pissed. But if you call a cop and the cop comes out there and says where did you find this, and the guy says "in the lake". The cop will ask you if this is true and you have to say "yes, I lost it in the lake". If you have left the scene at any point, whether giving up the search (most often the case) or going to find a way to try and retrieve it, the law will hold that you "willfully abandoned" the property in a public place.

Nobody is stupid enough to argue that one would "willfully" throw a disc into the water. That would be dumb. But once you have left the scene, said property is "willfully abandoned". No one forced you to give up the search. That was a self-made decision. And it may never go to court, but the cop is not going to, and cannot legally, force the person to give the disc back because there is a name on it.

I agree that you should always call, but you cannot expect that same courtesy unfortunately. The people who don't will have to deal with karma on their own. I was simply making the point that due to the legalities, calling a cop will not help you in the slightest. In fact, the cop would be within his rights to "comandeer" the disc since it was "abandoned" by one party and found on public property by another. The cop could then sell the disc on ebay and give funds to the parks and rec department of the city.

I am just having fun with the legalities because they are facts. Not because any of these situations would ever occur.
 
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Also, many of us trade discs either here or on discaroo or another forum. Nearly 90% of the time the disc has a name on the back. How do I know that this person I traded with didn't swipe it out of a lake and it is someone's baby? Does this mean we should only swap discs with no names or numbers on them?

I just ask because I can think of 3 discs that I carry that have someone else's name on them. All came from discaroo...does this make me a target of evil karma? I really can't say.
 
I think we've gotten a little off track with this discussion. I'm don't think this was intended to be a legal discussion as much as a moral one. If I were to dive into a lake and find someone's disc, no, I'm not legally obligated to return it. However, if there is any kind of contact information on it, I believe we should make a reasonable effort to call, email, whatever. Just seems like the right thing to do. Chances are the disc has already been replaced, but if the original owner wants it back, I don't see any reason not to give it back. Plus, there should be some sort of reward offered by the owner. I see no issue with unmarked discs, because if someone doesn't care enough about their disc to mark it, they are in effect saying, "I don't want this back if I lose it."
 
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