Hazard

[txmxer]

I don't know. I don't play tournaments any more, but the courses I most often play casual have lots of OB, of all types, and a few mandos. Some casual players use them. Some don't. I don't see it having much impact on growth or enjoyment.

My experience is anecdotal, but it is what it is.

People don't generally enjoy a bunch of arbitrary rules.

 

[Steve West]

Is the use of hazard a result of DG being played on ball golf courses?

I suppose there are a few times hazard would make sense in a park. Like an island green created by pavement. Of course they usually just call that OB, but I could see it as a hazard.

"Pavement" like what cars drive on?

That seems like the worst place to make players throw from their disc.

 

[txmxer]

"Pavement" like what cars drive on?

That seems like the worst place to make players throw from their disc.

It's in a park.

 

[R-Ogre]

Eh, we have a couple holes that use hazard lies during league/tourney play. I like it fine but I guess I never really thought about it.

 

[araytx]

We have one of those at Stoney Hill -- though we just refer to it as mandatory casual relief.

It's there for safety reasons, not scoring separation, but has the same effect. The basket's on a mound, one side of which is a little dangerous to take a stance. So that side is marked as casual relief; the resulting lie from the bottom creates a missable putt instead of a drop-in.

"buncr" is an attempt to take a casual relief area, and make the name bring to mind a bunker.

BUNK (Bunder) + CR (Casual Relief).

I've seen casual relief areas used for all sorts of reasons....usually to keep people from playing from, or having to play from, certain areas, but also in strategic design way that Chuck is promoting.

The use of the "buncr" label for them is much rarer.

Yes, I've always used it spelled bunCR to emphasize that it is casual relief.

 

[chevis]

as a player, i don't like to get double punished; as a viewer/td, i like to see more score separation & less ties. i prefer ob to hazard: if your not suppose to land there why would you play from there.

 

[magictenor1]

My experience is anecdotal, but it is what it is.

People don't generally enjoy a bunch of arbitrary rules.

I don't play tournaments but everybody I know plays mandos and OB

 

[txmxer]

I don't play tournaments but everybody I know plays mandos and OB

I think it depends. If the mando is well marked it is less an issue.

 

[_MTL_]

We have one of those at Stoney Hill -- though we just refer to it as mandatory casual relief.

It's there for safety reasons, not scoring separation, but has the same effect. The basket's on a mound, one side of which is a little dangerous to take a stance. So that side is marked as casual relief; the resulting lie from the bottom creates a missable putt instead of a drop-in.

Do you play where it crossed into the area or on the line of play?

 

[DavidSauls]

Do you play where it crossed into the area or on the line of play?

On the line of play.

The basket is on a mound; one side of the mound is very steep, then has a little ledge with some timbers to stop rollaways, then a cliff going down. We didn't want people taking a stance on the steep mound, losing balance, and falling the whole way. So we marked the mandatory casual relief area, and the resulting lie on the line of play is on the ledge between the mound and cliff. It's still a short putt but very steep, so missable.

 

[_MTL_]

On the line of play.

The basket is on a mound; one side of the mound is very steep, then has a little ledge with some timbers to stop rollaways, then a cliff going down. We didn't want people taking a stance on the steep mound, losing balance, and falling the whole way. So we marked the mandatory casual relief area, and the resulting lie on the line of play is on the ledge between the mound and cliff. It's still a short putt but very steep, so missable.

FWIW, in PDGA play, this would not be allowed. Let me be clear before I explain - I agree with your rationale, but a waiver would be necessary.

The line of play drop comes from casual areas. Relief areas play where it enters. However, casual areas cannot require a player to relocate their lie whereas relief areas can.

One of my local courses has the same type issue and we've always had a waiver approved to play it as a casual area, but with the forced relocation.

 

[DavidSauls]

Well, pooh. That "casual/relief area" is 15 years, and several rulebook re-writes, old, before the regulated areas fractured into all these definitions. I hadn't read "the player's lie may be relocated...." as optional, though of course it says "may". So thanks, and fie on you.

Though 95% of the time, it amounts to the same thing....the relief on the line of play is also the place last inbounds. It's pretty hard to stick a disc there from any other direction.

 

[_MTL_]

Well, pooh. That "casual/relief area" is 15 years, and several rulebook re-writes, old, before the regulated areas fractured into all these definitions. I hadn't read "the player's lie may be relocated...." as optional, though of course it says "may". So thanks, and fie on you.

Though 95% of the time, it amounts to the same thing....the relief on the line of play is also the place last inbounds. It's pretty hard to stick a disc there from any other direction.

yeah its a very small nit picky thing from the rules. But the same reason you can stand in the huge puddle that is not OB if you want, you can stand in a causal area if you want.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm about 80% sure that, once upon a time, a casual area could be optional or mandatory. Just as we could once require a drop zone lie for OB.

In the meantime, we can weigh whether to leave it as it is and file for a waiver, or call it "relief" and let people play it that way (and consider whether, mostly catering to amateurs, they'll even know what that means).

 

[Steve West]

I'm about 80% sure that, once upon a time, a casual area could be optional or mandatory. Just as we could once require a drop zone lie for OB.

In the meantime, we can weigh whether to leave it as it is and file for a waiver, or call it "relief" and let people play it that way (and consider whether, mostly catering to amateurs, they'll even know what that means).

Call it No-Penalty OB. Refer to 806.04 if you need to. Players will feel like you are being nice by taking away the penalty, rather than being mean by forcing them to move their lie.

 

[DavidSauls]

Call it No-Penalty OB. Refer to 806.04 if you need to. Players will feel like you are being nice by taking away the penalty, rather than being mean by forcing them to move their lie.

No one has ever described our course design as being "nice" to disc golfers, and I don't think they're going to buy it now.

 

[krupicka]

I'm about 80% sure that, once upon a time, a casual area could be optional or mandatory. Just as we could once require a drop zone lie for OB.

In the meantime, we can weigh whether to leave it as it is and file for a waiver, or call it "relief" and let people play it that way (and consider whether, mostly catering to amateurs, they'll even know what that means).

I've gotten a waiver for a mandatory casual area for one of my events for years. If it's reasonable, it shouldn't be an issue to get one.

 

[_MTL_]

Call it No-Penalty OB. Refer to 806.04 if you need to. Players will feel like you are being nice by taking away the penalty, rather than being mean by forcing them to move their lie.

Events should not use their own naming convention. 806.04 clearly calls it a relief area and it should not be called a "no-penalty OB." This causes confusion.

And that is exactly why I asked if it was a line of play drop or where it entered - relief area plays where it entered and casual area plays line of play.

 

[biscoe]

Events should not use their own naming convention. 806.04 clearly calls it a relief area and it should not be called a "no-penalty OB." This causes confusion.

And that is exactly why I asked if it was a line of play drop or where it entered - relief area plays where it entered and casual area plays line of play.

Agree 1000% with the bolded. It's hard enough to get players to grasp these concepts without muddying the waters even more.

 

[Steve West]

Agreed. Copy this from the rules instead:

"A relief area is considered and played as an out-of-bounds area, but no penalty throw is applied."