On the verge of giving up please help!

[Memphis Newbie]

Just looks like strong-arming and balance issues, which are easy bad habits to acquire when you're trying to out throw your friend. Fix the swooping and rounding and focus more on leading with your hips.

Some tips to help:
Don't reach back as far. It doesn't do anything but throw off your balance. Your body is not on it's center of balance at the hit point, which is why you have to take so many steps forward off the teepad after release. In doing so, you're not finishing your weight transfer before pivoting so you're strong arming the disc around your chest instead of your hips/torsoe leading your arm and whipping your forehand across your chest.

Here's proof: the green line is your front foot pivot point. The red line is where your weight is centered. Ideally the red line should be overtop of that green line. When they are one of the same, your body will pivot on your plant foot and your body will follow through by rotating instead of moving/stepping forward.

This is how it's supposed to look: (Liz Lopez always displays great balance and has the best form of the top women imho. )

This is an amazing break down of what is going on. I couldn't put my finger on it until you described it. I'll have to put my own video up for analysis.

 

[Toro71]

I only skimmed this thread, so someone might have mentioned this, but the way your hand is flopping around in your follow through it looks like you might be actively letting go of the disc instead of letting it rip out on its own. Hard to tell in those vids.

I couldn't access ur vids at work, and now I'm on my phone, but ur OP, plus 2 comments about this, make me suspect that u did what i did, learned tee to basket rather than the other way around. I.e. you got to where u could carry 400, and now ur like "great, now I need to throw straight." you may be aiming, not throwing.

My first attempt to fix the same problem was to try to intentionally release the disc rather than letting it release me. That'll kill ur power. It can also lead to decelerating rather than accelerating through the "hit." you aim with ur feet, not ur hand. Some things that helped me:

Timing: for power shots, the last 2 steps and the hit need to be synched. I do this by making sure my step behind, pivot foot plant, and the hit go down in rhythm. Step...plant...rip. not stepplant......rip or what have u. this solves a lot of power loss because it helps build power from the ground up.

Grip the disc like ur holding a live bird: firm enough so it cant fly away, but not so tight that u crush it to death. Maintain thru out follow thru. Elbow to wrist should be dead man floppy. I think if this as flicking the doodoo. If you get dog poo on ur fingers, you'll flick it off and away from urself with acceleration so u don't get any on you. Let the wrist happen, don't make it happen. Stay loose.

I also had to learn the hard way that speed 13 doesn't mean farthest flying, but how fast/how much spin is needed to make the disc physics work, so discing down might help, but it sounds like u have more raw power than I do.

Greenwell I think had a great comment during the worlds on discgolftv about follow thru. If you finish with ur left (non throwing) elbow pointing at ur target, unless ur a freak of nature u'll clear ur shoulders and hips properly.

There are more experienced players than me by far on here, but I've just gone thru what u are, so maybe some of this can help you.

 

[Monkeypaws]

Don't give up. Disc golf is meant to be fun. It gets you outside, and when you travel, it gives you something to do along the way, and perhaps meet nice folks.

 

[gaerith2]

Again, thanks to everyone for all of the posts. I understand all of the advice and I have already tried a lot of it but I feel like for whatever reason when I get on a teepad and my mind knows what to do I can't translate it to my body.
My arm NEVER hurts. i mean I can literally play 80 holes in a day and the only things that are tired are my legs and back. I see from the red line/green line that my weight is back for too long and maybe that has become a serious problem. I was told a long time ago to keep my weight back for as long as possible and then transfer it all forward to my front leg, rotate my hips through fast, and whip my arm through straight across my chest.
I have watched tons of videos and read all kinds of pro tips about rotating on my front heel instead of the ball of my foot and I try to when I play. The only problem is, when I make a conscious effort to do it I feel like my right calf muscle is going to rip apart and I almost fall down because I'm so off balanced. I have just chalked it up to not being flexible enough but it looks so effortless for everyone who actually does it.

 

[gaerith2]

As far as putters go, I can throw ions around 225=250 when I need to.

 

[eegor]

Keep at it. It will all come together one day. Keep working on good habits and they'll begin to feel natural to you. Then more good habits... repeat... never stop improving...

 

[knettles]

While losing that much average distance is rather strange, only being able to throw 360 is the most ridiculous reason to want to quit I've ever heard. There's tons of people who never throw past 400. Hell, there's tons of people who never throw past 350 (despite how this site makes it sound). Your distance right now isn't super far, but it's more than enough to do well and enjoy the game. I've been playing regularly for almost three years now and I'm at 320 feet. I think realistically I could make it to 350-375 in a few years with good steady practice on form. I wouldn't be disappointed at all however if I never get past 330-340. Like Widdershins said, some people have the natural ability to throw far and some don't.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Learning to throw is the best part of the game. Relax. Take a breath. Make a game out of increasing your distance. And realize distance is going to be gained slowly(slower even), incrementally. Practice throwing somewhere that you are able to relax and be comfortable. Worry about form, but only one technique at a time. Don't overload your plate. I think everyone can agree that beginning anything has it's frustrating aspects, but the epiphanies of knowledge will come with dedication and practice. Probably most important is that one learns to enjoy the process of learning. I've only been playing one year. I won't ever set any distance records, or go pro, but I'll pit my ability to have fun along side anybody.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to learn to brace your front side and stay in balance foremost. I think your high reachback among a few other things is a compensation from not being in good balance and posture, as Paul said start the lawnmower not the ceiling fan. Your front knee is collapsing forward past your foot after you plant so your weight kind of tips over/around your foot instead of going through the inside of your foot. Your weight/spine is behind your heels instead of staying in between your feet.
These should help some:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu4vLOEthM4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvh-wqkgEYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLTM9bfD54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwNHCRPd3ow

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Again, thanks to everyone for all of the posts. I understand all of the advice and I have already tried a lot of it but I feel like for whatever reason when I get on a teepad and my mind knows what to do I can't translate it to my body.
My arm NEVER hurts. i mean I can literally play 80 holes in a day and the only things that are tired are my legs and back. I see from the red line/green line that my weight is back for too long and maybe that has become a serious problem. I was told a long time ago to keep my weight back for as long as possible and then transfer it all forward to my front leg, rotate my hips through fast, and whip my arm through straight across my chest.
I have watched tons of videos and read all kinds of pro tips about rotating on my front heel instead of the ball of my foot and I try to when I play. The only problem is, when I make a conscious effort to do it I feel like my right calf muscle is going to rip apart and I almost fall down because I'm so off balanced. I have just chalked it up to not being flexible enough but it looks so effortless for everyone who actually does it.

Everyone has a slightly different heal turn. Take Will Schusterick for instance. Massive emphasis on the heal turn.


Paul McBeth still turns on his heal but it is not as pronounced as Will.


Matt Orum has a heal turn that almost looks like he could be on the ball of his foot, but he isn't.


If you thought Matt had a small heal turn, look at Eric McCabe.


My guess is that if you are hurting your calf muscle, you are not getting the correct heal turn for your body. You do not want to be hurting yourself when you do this. Proper weight balance and change in where your weight it should help you find that happy balance. Yes, you need to be on your heal, but no, you do not need to put so much emphasis on it that you are hurting yourself. I have found that when I think too much about my heal, I loose my balance as well as experience pains that are not a good thing.

 

[Tiny]

Everyone has a slightly different heal turn.

My guess is that if you are hurting your calf muscle, you are not getting the correct heal turn for your body. You do not want to be hurting yourself when you do this. Proper weight balance and change in where your weight it should help you find that happy balance.

Yay for my short fat wide feet, I can turn on my whole foot lolol.

 

[Uncle Dougie]

To the OP,

I've been running into the same issue. I have been playing over 2 and 1/2 years and this last year all my distance has gone out the window. I was hitting 380' to 400' consistently and then I decided to disc down last winter. Spring came and all my drives were 50'-100' shorter. Doesn't matter what I throw...understable, stable, light weight, etc. Any power or snap I had is gone and I've been struggling ever since. It's quite embarrassing while in league play. My mids and putters I can still get out 300' but that's not where I want to improve. I'm lucky to hit 350' most drives now. All I can say is to work on grip pressure and weight transfer. That's what the local pro's are telling me.

I FEEL YA BROTHA!!!!!!

 

[Dmichel824]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V49eZ3xcDUU&feature=share

 

[Uncle Dougie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V49eZ3xcDUU&feature=share

Nice throw!

 

[Toro71]

I have been playing for 3 years and throw WAY shorter than I used to. For reference I am 6'4 190lbs so I know I should be throwing farther. Take a look at these videos and tell me what I am doing wrong. And please don't say "throw with hyzer" or "hyzer flip everything" because if I could I would. My grip is a regular power grip. I feel like I am dragging my arm through. I don't think the nose angle is the problem. I have a friend that is 5'9 140lbs soak and wet and can throw 100 feet farther than me on a regular basis. Please for the love of all things holy help me. In order the discs are: Star Katana, Opto Riot, Echo Destroyer, Champ Boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chDa-CZC4Lg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVcVFtfD5OA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsJQ1pF8YLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMbTRX1lZSA

OK, I was able to check out a couple of the videos. I won't be able to add much that hasn't been said, my eye for granular detail w/r/t technique is nowhere near some of these other posters. The only thing I see that hasn't been specifically mentioned is that you seem to have a ton of forward momentum across the teepad/through the hit, like you're trying to run the disc out there rather than whip it. I'm a big believer in "whatever works," but that could be costing you.

I'm 100% sympathetic to the heel turn deal. I have two knees I injured in an Army school that I never told anyone about because it was more important to not wash out of the school at the time. I simply cannot get that "Feldberg-esque" heel pivot down (and I've watched his slo-mo vid about 1000 times.) At 6'3'', 240 (and not in "game shape,") I have to be careful about my plant/pivot. I know this is costing me some D.

Still, I've slowly increased to about a 360 average, maxing out at just under 400. I'll agree with what several others said, in that I feel like if this is the farthest I'll ever throw, it's plenty of D to eventually become a scratch golfer. At the risk of "name dropping," I ran into Stan McDaniel a couple of times on the course, and talked to him about his design philosophy, about my 'noodle arm,' and how I "hated" him for some of his holes, lol. He swears that all a player needs in most cases is 300 ft of D, and to be able to put the disc exactly where you want it every time, to be a scratch golfer.

A couple of posters mentioned that losing 100 ft of average D is unusual unless you're aging or injured, or you've made some drastic change to your motion, and this rings true imo. All of these, you'd know about. So, a couple questions that'r just 'food for thought..." Is your "yardstick" for this lost D just throwing with your buddy? Is it possible that you haven't so much lost D, as he's improved his over time, and closed the gap on you? If you've thrown with him for most of your time in the game, and if he's a friend as much as a competitor, does he have any insight into something(s) you might be doing differently? No need to reply to these, just throwing it out there.

 

[Uncle Dougie]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I used to be able to throw 425-450 on average now 350 is a great drive for me. The video with the Boss I would say it went about 360. That was actually one of my better drives of late. I have tried throwing more understable discs and I have no problem with discing down. For some reason a boss has always felt the most comfortable in my hand.
All that being said, I see the arm swoop thing happening and I have tried to lean over my discs more but when I do that, everything comes out hyzer and stalls out very short, even if it's understable discs. I am still waiting for that "aha" moment to see what has changed from the way I used to throw. Sadly, I don't have any video that far back.

Question,

When you throw a drive does everything look right? Angle and flight path. Disc flips up straight and flies intended line? Everything looks great but just 100' short almost like a mini version of a pro's throw?

 

[mreynolds24]

A couple of posters mentioned that losing 100 ft of average D is unusual unless you're aging or injured, or you've made some drastic change to your motion, and this rings true imo. All of these, you'd know about. So, a couple questions that'r just 'food for thought..." Is your "yardstick" for this lost D just throwing with your buddy? Is it possible that you haven't so much lost D, as he's improved his over time, and closed the gap on you? If you've thrown with him for most of your time in the game, and if he's a friend as much as a competitor, does he have any insight into something(s) you might be doing differently? No need to reply to these, just throwing it out there.

The 'yardstick' he's using is just the local course holes. My distance went down some this summer, but mostly due to a change in my form and learning bad habits. Recently, with him working on regaining his D, I've been watching and reading a lot to attempt to give him tips on what he's been doing differently; and in the process cleaned up some of the problems I've had and am back to throwing what I used to. The change came from tinkering with his throw to make him more accurate. When we first started he threw farther than just about anyone but would dump putters and anything understable. So, we played with his throw to clean that up and help his fairway/midrange game. In doing so, he lost the D on big drives.

I'm not very good at looking at form and knowing what to change. The biggest thing I notice is the flutter (OAT) when the disc initially leaves his hand. I'm not real sure what is causing it, but fixing that along with several of the tips given already should go a long way to helping.

 

[Redbone1412]

all this is great info for you gaerith2. it will be fun to see you take some of this advice out the the course with you. so this is my 2 cents. I agree with the heel thing, 1: because if you have to spin open on your heel after you throw, that more than likely means that you are not flying open with your front side. if you were flying open then you would definitely be losing distance by opening up to soon. That being said, spinning open on your heel is a result of things that were done right prior to it. Just because you spin on your heel does not mean that you will get huge D because the spin actually comes after you let go of the disc. So i say again, the heel spin is a result of things done right prior to the heel spin (weight transfer, keeping front side closed as long as possible, etc.). I do believe that i you work on the hill spin to try to emulate like some of the pros in videos posted earlier in this thread it will definitely help.

Also, I think a good way to avoid the strong arming issue is for us to realize that you dont really throw with your arm. You throw with your whole body. That is why it is so important to make sure that your throw from start to finish is smooth. The smoother your throw is the more effortless it seems and also probably means that from the ground up (footwork all the way to release of the disc) that your throwing motion is in sync. if at any point there is a break in that chain then you are losing some power.

 

[Discwrangler]

Speed is power. You have to be stronger through your core. Speed is power.

 

[eegor]

This is power... at maybe 110 lbs tops!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQ4SkpWpRU