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question about doubles rules

Randall_K

Newbie
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
38
Location
Live oak, texas
in BEST SHOT doubles, where you and your partner are allowed to choose the lie, are you allowed to each choose seprate lies???

example... my partner is a lefty and has a great lefty line on a lie. the other lie is a easy right handed hyzer....

are we allowed to each shoot from different lies?

i was always under the impression that in BEST SHOT it is your teams descretion on choosing lies
 
I've always played that if it's a serious round, then play from the "best" disc only. If it's my friends and we are just playing a quick doubles round, I don't care which disc they play form.
 
Check this link for the "rules" for doubles from PDGA:

http://www.pdga.com/rules/doubles


These rules for doubles play have been approved by the PDGA Rules Committee.

Doubles play comes in a variety of formats. Best Shot, Best Disc (aka Best Score), Alternate Shot, Worst Shot, and Tough Shot are described below. Except where noted, PDGA rules apply.

One oddity about doubles formats with regard to the rules is that a team may often disregard a player's shot (or score, in Best Disc), giving that player a good deal of theoretical leeway as far as rules are concerned. As always, any attempt to circumvent the rules in order to gain competitive advantage is subject to action up to and including disqualification. In most cases, a warning or penalty throw incurred by a player shall apply to that player only; for example, if player A throws a drive out-of-bounds in Best Shot and the team elects to play player A's drive, the team is then lying two at player A's lie. Warnings and penalty throws for the following violations shall apply to the team as a whole: courtesy, practice throw, interference, late scorecard, and incorrect scorecard. All other warnings and penalty throws shall apply to the offending player only. Any call that requires confirmation must be confirmed by players on other teams.

In the Best Shot, Tough Shot, and Best Disc formats, you do not throw if it is mathematically impossible for you to improve your team's score on a hole. In the Best Shot and Tough Shot formats, the second player does not throw if the first player has holed out. If you are playing Best Disc format and your partner has holed out, you do not throw unless you can improve on your partner's score. Any throw made which cannot possibly improve a team's score on a hole is a practice throw.

The formats described below may be extended beyond doubles (to triples,etc) if desired.

Best Shot
Best Shot is by far the most popular doubles format. Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the team chooses which of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed.

A team may take a reasonable amount of time to pick which lie they want before the 30-second play clock starts.
A lie that is picked up without being marked is gone forever; the team must throw from the other lie. If the second lie is picked up, it must be replaced in accordance with PDGA rules. All lies must be marked according to PDGA rules.
If the first player throws from the wrong lie, the second player may still throw from the correct lie.
In case of injury or disqualification, one partner may play alone, throwing one shot at each lie (essentially playing singles).

Worst Shot
Worst Shot is the most brutal of the doubles formats, and can test the patience of even the best teams. In Worst Shot, both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the competing teams in the group choose which of the subsequent lies will be used, with the aim of making the hole as difficult as possible. The hole is completed once both team members have holed out from the same lie.

The 30-second play clock begins once the opposing teams have selected the lie.
A lie that is picked up without being marked must be replaced in accordance with PDGA rules. All lies must be marked according to PDGA rules.
Any warning or penalty incurred by a player may be chosen to apply to the team, at the opposing teams' discretion.
A team found to be giving an opposing team a better lie will be disqualified for unsportsmanlike behavior.

Tough Shot
Tough Shot is the same as Worst Shot, with the following variation: once a player on the team has holed out, the team has completed the hole.
Alternate Shot
In Alternate Shot, only one sequence of throws is made on each hole. The team selects a player to throw the tee shot at the beginning of the round. The other player then throws from the subsequent lie, and play alternates in that fashion until the round is completed. Alternate Shot is closer to a singles format, where one partner can't bail the other out. If you miss a short putt, chances are good that you'll be driving the next hole.

If the wrong player on a team throws, another team must call it immediately, like a foot fault. The team receives a warning, and the correct player throws. Subsequent violations incur a one-throw penalty.
For any violation that requires a rethrow (stance violation, provisional thr ow), the same player throws.

Best Disc (Best Score)
In Best Disc (also known as Best Score), each player plays the hole as they would while playing singles; there are no shared lies. The team score is the best score on the hole by one of its players.

The player who is away will always throw first, with this exception: If both players are lying the same number of throws, the team may choose which player throws first.
A player must pick up once it is impossible for him to better the team's score. The team incurs a warning for the first violation, and a penalty throw for subsequent violations.
In case of injury or disqualification, one partner may play alone.
 
I think the spirit of best shot doubles is that the team is choosing one lie (the "best") to play from for each shot. There are other types of formats that allow for partners to play from different lies on the fairway.

Key line from the rules that Snappyfingers quoted is this one...
If the first player throws from the wrong lie, the second player may still throw from the correct lie.
Seems to me that if two partners are throwing from different lies, then only one can be the "correct" one. I'd argue that the correct one is the second one based on the way that rule reads, and thus the throw from that lie is the one the team would have to continue subsequent play from unless they wished to incur a misplay penalty for playing the wrong lie.
 
who dertermines if its the correct lie?

i think that rule is applied to when you throw from another teams disc not your own..

because if that is the case then i could let my lefty partner throw his shot from lieA, if it is bad i could then determine it to be the "wrong" or "incorrect" lie; and shoot from lieB
 
The second player may throw from a different lie than their partner. However, it is then presumed that the first lie was the "incorrect lie" and only the second player's throw may be used.
 
who dertermines if its the correct lie?

You are, by choosing to not play the lie your partner has already thrown from.

i think that rule is applied to when you throw from another teams disc not your own..

There is no longer a distinction between another player/team's disc and your own when it comes to playing from an incorrect lie. An incorrect lie is an incorrect lie, punished by a one-throw penalty as a misplay (803.03G).

because if that is the case then i could let my lefty partner throw his shot from lieA, if it is bad i could then determine it to be the "wrong" or "incorrect" lie; and shoot from lieB

And the problem with that would be what, exactly? The only catch to you choosing to play a different lie than your partner is that you are throwing away your partner's shot before you throw. So if you shank it or throw OB or whatever, you're stuck with that instead of having the option of taking your partner's throw (at least, of taking your partner's throw without penalty).


I think you're trying to find a loophole where there isn't one. Best shot is intended to have one lie per throw. The whole purpose is to choose one lie from two potential positions on each throw. When you choose to play one lie then change your mind after one partner throws, that's not really in the spirit of the format and there should be consequences.
 
who dertermines if its the correct lie?

The team does, ie you and your partner...

Check this link for the "rules" for doubles from PDGA:

Best Shot
Best Shot is by far the most popular doubles format. Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the team chooses which of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed.

You must choose one before you can proceed.
 
the problem with that is that IS a loophole!

if my partner throws a ****ty shot from his lieA. i can determine it to be the wrong lie, therfore canceling his shot (which is worthless anyways), and go throw my shot from lieB
 
Bad Karma exploiting loopholes. Lost disc on that shot. ;)
 
thank you snappyfingers. i have seen these but i do not find clarification

Traditionally, you only shoot from one lie. If you and your partner shoot from different lies, you're effectively not playing "best shot" doubles anymore. ;)


And yes, PDGA can be very ambiguous :\
 
example # 2...

my partner parks a upshot 1 ft away from the basket.
my shot floats 25 feet past.

if i putt the further lie and make it, the hole is complete and we pick up the other one.
if i miss my putt from the further lie, could i then deem that the "incorrect" lie. and have my partner play his disc from the "correct" lie
 
i don't want to play doubles with someone looking for loopholes to game the system. The "spirit of the game" for "Best shot"(scramble) doubles is choose a disc, pick up the other and play from that lie.

Of course you could throw and then if it stunk have partner throw from other one, but that really turns it into best ball (best hole) instead, which is a completely different type of doubles.

I will likely add this rule to my doubles rounds, if i run one.
"Both partners must throw from the same lie, unless the hole is completed. Once a partner throws from a lie, that is the official lie, and all others are forfeited"
 
the problem with that is that IS a loophole!

if my partner throws a ****ty shot from his lieA. i can determine it to be the wrong lie, therfore canceling his shot (which is worthless anyways), and go throw my shot from lieB

Again, I ask so what? You are assuming the risk that your shot is going to be equally ****ty from lie B with no back-up option. Whereas you can choose to play from and potentially throw a ****ty shot from lie A like your partner did. At least in that case, you would have two positions from which to choose the least ****ty lie instead of just one.


Isn't the whole idea of best shot to be able to ignore or throw away bad shots, including penalties associated with those bad shots? You get to discard OB throws in favor of inbounds ones. You get to discard stance violation calls on one partner if the other is able to execute his throw without violation. Stands to reason you should also get to discard a throw from an "incorrect" lie in favor of one from the "correct" lie.
 
I have honestly never heard of someone trying to exploit this. You choose a lie, your partner throws first and messes up. Why would you even decide to determine that it was the wrong lie when you still have a shot. That's the fun part about best shot doubles is you can still do good even with bad throws because you have a partner! Throw your upshot and if it's better, than its better. If it's worse, than its worse. Really don't understand why this is even being brought up. Also, if your partner parks his upshot under the basket why would you decide to putt your shot from 25ft?
 
the problem with that is that IS a loophole!

if my partner throws a ****ty shot from his lieA. i can determine it to be the wrong lie, therfore canceling his shot (which is worthless anyways), and go throw my shot from lieB

It doesn't matter if your partner's shot is OB or not. If he throws first, and you throw from lieB, you are required to play from your resulting lie. If your partner's throw ends up in the basket from lieA, and you throw from lieB, then your partner's throw does not count.


example # 2...

my partner parks a upshot 1 ft away from the basket.
my shot floats 25 feet past.

if i putt the further lie and make it, the hole is complete and we pick up the other one.
if i miss my putt from the further lie, could i then deem that the "incorrect" lie. and have my partner play his disc from the "correct" lie

This question should never be raised because it is Best Shot doubles. Why would you even throw from your position at all? Your upshot should never have been used at all and if you throw from it anyway, this shot could be deemed as a practice throw, no matter the outcome.
 
I'm with wake911 on this one too. I don't want to play ANY round, doubles, tournaments, casual rounds where someone is looking for loopholes like this in the rules so they can gain an edge by exploiting them
 

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