question about doubles rules

[JC17393]

It doesn't matter if your partner's shot is OB or not. If he throws first, and you throw from lieB, you are required to play from your resulting lie. If your partner's throw ends up in the basket from lieA, and you throw from lieB, then your partner's throw does not count.

I agree with you overall, but I think in a case where a throw holes out, any subsequent throw is a practice throw. Once the disc is holed out, there is no lie left to be correct/incorrect.

 

[Randall_K]

wow guys calm down no one is exploiting rules or trying to "cheat". i am asking for my own knowledge..

i also agree with wake, if he runs a doubles he should make that a distinct rule.

 

[Fraser]

I agree with you overall, but I think in a case where a throw holes out, any subsequent throw is a practice throw. Once the disc is holed out, there is no lie left to be correct/incorrect.

Yup, I completely agree with you here. My example should have been that instead of in the basket, it was parked, 1' away. That part of my second statement would apply here as well. Too many variables I was trying to respond to.

Too much over-analysis, I guess.

 

[mashnut]

Doesn't really matter if there appears to be a loophole, exploiting that loophole is specifically disallowed by this passage in the rule book:

As always, any attempt to circumvent the rules in order to gain competitive advantage is subject to action up to and including disqualification.

 

[tallpaul]

In informal rounds; just due to laziness; or wanting to shoot an interesting shot; I've said I don't think anyone cares if we each shoot our own, do they? And upon not getting any complaints, have seen both partners shoot from their own. This can also come into play if your partner has had a few too many beverages....and can't seem to understand which shot is the best!

 

[JC17393]

Doesn't really matter if there appears to be a loophole, exploiting that loophole is specifically disallowed by this passage in the rule book:

But it's not a exploiting a loophole if it is specifically allowed by rule.

There are few doubles rules written down in any official capacity, but this is actually one that is written down.

Best Shot
If the first player throws from the wrong lie, the second player may still throw from the correct lie.

Calling it cheating to implement a written rule of the game seems wrong to me. Same as the old arguments saying it was "cheating" for a player to invoke the old unplayable lie (now the optional re-throw) rule on a "perfectly playable lie". If there's an "advantage" to be gained by invoking a rule, it is an "advantage" available to every player/team at any time.

 

[Randall_K]

did you just flip to the dark side jc? lol

 

[shags17]

Again I have to ask why this is coming up? If you have already decided to throw from your partner's lie, then that has already been determined to be the correct lie. If you decide after the fact that for yourself that his/hers was an incorrect lie because you didn't like their shot is knowingly exploiting this "loophole", which IMO is cheating.

 

[Randall_K]

rules are supposed to be cut and dry black and white.

NOT LEFT UP TO DESCRETION!
that creates controversy..ie this thread


just because YOU feel like it would be a stupid thing to do, does not mean it is illegal

 

[JC17393]

did you just flip to the dark side jc? lol

Flip? I've been fairly consistent in this thread.

The spirit of the format is to play from only one lie. The rules allow for partners to play from different lies however there are consequences for doing so. I have no problem with a player or a team applying the rule if they think they can gain an advantage and have no problem accepting the consequences should it not work out to their advantage. To me, it's no more or less a risk/reward decision as going over an OB area versus laying up and playing around it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Here's an example where the incorrect lie rule is needed. Your partner doesn't know the course that well and plays a shot from a lie that he didn't realize was OB. The group realizes it wasn't a legal shot so the partner can then play from the other lie and just live his shot.

 

[knettles]

rules are supposed to be cut and dry black and white.

NOT LEFT UP TO DESCRETION!
that creates controversy..ie this thread


just because YOU feel like it would be a stupid thing to do, does not mean it is illegal

Haaa! That really made me laugh.

 

[wake911]

This is the part that seals it for me. "Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the team chooses which of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed."

The bolded part to me determines which lie is the correct lie. You choose which lie to play from. Once chosen, that is the ONLY correct lie making the other lie "incorrect"

The correct lie is decided prior to any throws, so any throw after that correct one is chosen is a practice throw(if first throw holed out) (1 shot penalty applied to the team) or playing from wrong lie (2 shot penalty (most likely not applied since this would likely be more than any result from the first shot)

BUT, i still think it could be clarified in the pre-doubles players mtg since it appears some folks might interpret differently. Reads pretty cut and dried to me though.

 

[Cgkdisc]

That's the rule for PDGA sanctioned Best Shot format doubles. But if it's not PDGA then restrict it. However, what rule do you use to handle my example where the first player threw from an illegal lie? There are no practice throws in Best Shot. If your partner throws from a position that is not even a lie, it's still their official throw. But it likely won't be the best of your two shots when you go and play from one of your possible lies and probably count that legal and/or non-penalized shot instead.

 

[jobwilson]

This is giving me a headache.
If you are playing weekly doubles with your club, play however the majority wishes.
Personally, I'd rather play Florida rules (players can use either lie and do not have to play from the same lie), especially in putting situations. (E.g. I prefer to putt downhill, most people prefer uphill)

 

[Randall_K]

agreed. i was always under the assumption that in BEST SHOT it is your own descretion on what lie you take. and if you wanted to play from seprate lies you were within your right too make that decision

 

[araytx]

Doesn't really matter if there appears to be a loophole, exploiting that loophole is specifically disallowed by this passage in the rule book:

^^^ This.

Bam!

 

[araytx]

In informal rounds; just due to laziness; or wanting to shoot an interesting shot; I've said I don't think anyone cares if we each shoot our own, do they? And upon not getting any complaints, have seen both partners shoot from their own. This can also come into play if your partner has had a few too many beverages....and can't seem to understand which shot is the best!

In casual/informal rounds, whether you're playing singles, doubles, triples, Wolf, DISC, etc., everything is "who cares!" Can't tell you the number of times someone has said, "Can I mull?", and I say, "whatever, dude. we're's just playing and it's just us." But in a tournament or mini round -- no way. That's intentionally circumventing. The whole line from the rules about

Best Shot is by far the most popular doubles format. Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the team chooses which [my emphasis] of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed.​

"which" means one choice, implying that once you've chosen, then the other disc is picked up and no other "lies are available. One lie exists, not "lies".

 

[araytx]

Also ... wrong section for this thread.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Again, the theory of Best Shot where players choose their best throw is fine. But rules have to account for contingencies if it can't be followed such as the first thrower accidentally taking their shot from an inappropriate position. The team gets two chances to get an acceptable throw. So if the first one can't legally be used, the second player's shot must be used and thrown from an acceptable lie which would be different from where the first player threw from.