Rebuilding CLard's throw

[clard]

Mixed news:

In the past two weeks I really figured out the timing for the x step which has resulted in my longest golf shots to date. I had some field work where I broke 400' with Destroyers about 10-12 times in a row, with most of them being about 410-420. My longest way 440' on slight hyzer flip. It felt great. I also had my longest stand still/half step ever during a league round where I hyzer flipped that same Destroyer 35' long of a 385' hole. Overall my distance has substantially increased, and my effort has decreased. I can't ask for more than that.

The bad news is that I'm doing something on my x step where I am jamming my right hip. I haven't figured out what it is yet, but I'm going to take some video this week to see if I can get some advice from you folks about what is going wrong. The pain is on the outside of my right hip where the knobby bone kinda sticks out below the waist.

 

[clard]

Any advice on the hip pain, SW22? You're the biomechanics guy.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to give advice on the info at hand. Look up snapping hip syndrome/IT band and see if that fits your pain, if so a foam roller will do wonders. As for avoiding injury, make sure you are swinging weight/balance forward(not thrusting from the rear leg) and keep your joints from the ankle to hip into as neutral stacked alignment as you can.

 

[crusadersounds]

If we get on the same card Thursday, I'll try to watch you and maybe even video some of your tosses for you so SW can see and maybe make some adjustments for you. For the record, having seen what you looked like a year ago, I'll say that you've made drastic improvements! (Now to do whatever you did and get my form down.....)

*As long as you don't throw terribly at some other round this week and lose that tag, if it's a ranked round, we'll be on the same card :thmbup:

 

[clard]

If we get on the same card Thursday, I'll try to watch you and maybe even video some of your tosses for you so SW can see and maybe make some adjustments for you. For the record, having seen what you looked like a year ago, I'll say that you've made drastic improvements! (Now to do whatever you did and get my form down.....)

*As long as you don't throw terribly at some other round this week and lose that tag, if it's a ranked round, we'll be on the same card :thmbup:

We'll all be in trouble if you throw any further!

Thanks for the encouragement. I feel like I've made good progress, and now I'm just trying to eliminate anything that could cause injury and build some consistency. And learn to putt... I hear that's important.

 

[clard]

I did my first couple rounds of recorded field work for the year, and I've realized a couple of things:

1) I am leading my throw with my head and opening up a bit early. I'm going to fix this first since it is relatively easy. I focused for a couple of throws on letting my back shoulder bring my head through at the end of the throw and it completely fixed this. I still have to groove it in because it felt awkward, but it's not going to be too hard to fix.

2) My bracing is terrible except on my stand stills. This is definitely a symptom of playing a lot in less than optimal conditions (snow, mud, ice, etc), but my goal this year is to consistently hit 450 and break 500 regularly. I hit 500 a handful of times last year, and got 450 regularly but not easily enough to whip it out on the course too often.

3) I need to control my off arm. I had gotten pretty good about bracing my upper body against my off arm, but I let that slip along with my brace on my front foot because distance just hasn't been important where I've been playing lately.

Last year I met my goal of hitting 450 and consistently breaking 400, and I'm looking to keep improving and adding distance. I think flexibility and some added strength will really help if I can stay disciplined enough to work at it. Time to get started!

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

This needs to be documented. Hint hint.

Looking forward to seeing this unfold.

 

[Hyzenberg]

This thread is awesome, and filled with lots of useful tips. I loved reading through and seeing your progression and hope with some time and lots of practice I can progress as you did. Sub'd for future reference!

 

[sidewinder22]

It was funny when we all met up at Seneca last year. Clard said, "I finally understand what you mean by, shifting weight from behind you".

 

[clard]

This needs to be documented. Hint hint.

Looking forward to seeing this unfold.

I will! I actually have a few ideas floating around for HeavyDisc articles so hopefully the weather will warm up soon...

This thread is awesome, and filled with lots of useful tips. I loved reading through and seeing your progression and hope with some time and lots of practice I can progress as you did. Sub'd for future reference!

It's been a long and fun trip from where I started to where I am now. I've gotten better and worse in waves, but reflecting on where I was a year or two ago vs. now there is just no comparison.

It was funny when we all met up at Seneca last year. Clard said, "I finally understand what you mean by, shifting weight from behind you".

It took a long time for that one to click, and over the winter I have partially unclicked it, haha. Time to hit the field as soon as the weather clears up enough for my hands not to freeze.

I could be wrong, but I feel like the main things that are going to gain distance for me are a better brace and more action from my back leg. I noticed on a few throws the other day that if I let my back leg go from really relaxed to a firm, quick push/turn under I noticed a power difference. Not sure exactly what it was yet, but I think there is something there.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

if I let my back leg go from really relaxed to a firm, quick push/turn under I noticed a power difference.

BINGO! I feel like it's the most powerful action that you can do with your back leg.

Even though I talk about getting the back heel off the ground all the time, I still struggle with it being off the ground and engaged in a maximized way. It's very easy for it to just come along for the ride, clear out of the way and that's it.

Thinking of it as "driving the back knee under" is a great mental queue to keep the back heel up and maximized.

I also think that staying on your plant foot toes prior/during the x-step (before it lifts and strides forward) helps keep the axis upright. When I get flat footed, I tend to smoosh / lean my axis of rotation.

 

[clard]

The feel of the back leg drive has been coming pretty easily lately, but for some reason I'm really struggling with bracing well. I think my balance is weird or something, but it just doesn't feel right. Sometimes I'm throwing a dozen 300' one step putters in a row, and then I x step and lose distance UNLESS I try to throw it hard. If I try to drive the back leg then the disc will come out fast and go further than a stand still, but something about a 3/4 x step just hasn't been working lately.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The feel of the back leg drive has been coming pretty easily lately, but for some reason I'm really struggling with bracing well. I think my balance is weird or something, but it just doesn't feel right. Sometimes I'm throwing a dozen 300' one step putters in a row, and then I x step and lose distance UNLESS I try to throw it hard. If I try to drive the back leg then the disc will come out fast and go further than a stand still, but something about a 3/4 x step just hasn't been working lately.

I could have written a very similar paragraph... many times over the last 2 years.

Done right, and I am sure you're doing it right, the 1-step simplifies and happens slower and the focus is typically on a powerful rotation because we can feel that is the best way to generate power. We engage the hips, drive them around off the back foot and have good results.

A 3-step (for lack of a good term) puts substantially more forward momentum into the system, which makes it harder to adjust for in terms of rotation. We feel the momentum, we know that we can brace it and have it's force available, so rotation "feels" less important. We don't drive the hips around off the back foot... the stride is likely longer, the back leg comes along for the ride instead of driving the hips open.

Where this shows up drastically for me, is on an up-hill teepad. I am using the 3-step, but not getting the momentum... and losing the rotational power and end up with lack-luster distance. Often I do just as well or better on uphill teepads with a 1-step.

I have been trying to merge the two, with very limited success and lots of cursing. My current best shots are almost all slow 3-steps. Adding too much "juice" to the x-step I leave the hips behind... it sucks.

Editted to say that my max distance will fluctuate between 390' when I'm screwing up my rotational power to 425'+ when I am getting it right. It's very noticeable and I have been trying to come up with a mental trick to keep myself engaging hips in the 3-step. I've been trying to imagine a skateboard under my back foot and I'm trying to shoot it behind me as far as I can.

 

[clard]

A 3-step (for lack of a good term) puts substantially more forward momentum into the system, which makes it harder to adjust for in terms of rotation. We feel the momentum, we know that we can brace it and have it's force available, so rotation "feels" less important. We don't drive the hips around off the back foot... the stride is likely longer, the back leg comes along for the ride instead of driving the hips open.

Yep. I have been looking at some video and my stride is getting really long, and the hips are lagging. Slowing down the x step helps this to somewhat, and a focus on engaging the back leg with a shorter stride has been helping too.

I have been trying to merge the two, with very limited success and lots of cursing. My current best shots are almost all slow 3-steps. Adding too much "juice" to the x-step I leave the hips behind... it sucks.

The timing is really difficult to say the least.

Editted to say that my max distance will fluctuate between 390' when I'm screwing up my rotational power to 425'+ when I am getting it right. It's very noticeable and I have been trying to come up with a mental trick to keep myself engaging hips in the 3-step. I've been trying to imagine a skateboard under my back foot and I'm trying to shoot it behind me as far as I can.

I think we are throwing pretty much the same distance right now. I got out to a football field yesterday with hardly any wind, and I with Destoyers I broke 400' 9/10 throws with about 4 of those in the 420'-440' range. Possibly my best throw of the day was a more beat up Destroyer that carried on a hyzer out to 400' and was only about 8-10' off the ground.

I don't think I can stomach posting video of my form right now. It ain't pretty.

 

[clard]

I just came back from a field work session, and I made two breakthroughs! In one day!

1) The first one is really half a breakthrough because it is more of remembering something I had forgotten. I was thinking about my reachback and realized that I was a little tense so I decided to focus on really going slack/relaxed right at the peak of the reachback before the forward motion starts. Instant increase in distance.

2) This is a weird one, but it is the single biggest breakthrough I've had in 6 months or more: roll the wrist under at release. SW22 had posted something in one of the "Understability really (some #) of things" where he said that you could put understable or overstable wobble on a disc by rolling your wrist over or under respectively. I had my really flippy, 167 Tern with me and I just couldn't get it to hold a hyzer so I decided to try rolling my wrist under. HOLY CRAP! For some reason, and I can't explain this, my hit instantly felt stronger. And on every throw for about 20 throws in a row I felt the strongest ejection of the disc from my hand that I have ever felt.

Using these two things I threw about 6 Destroyers, on golf lines, to 440-460. I have NEVER hit that distance consistently and have only really hit it on slightly distance-y lines for the most part. I am 98% sure I could throw distance lines 500+ with this feeling, but watching those discs fly 450, in the air, no skip, was just amazing. I can't throw anymore today, but I did as much as I could to ingrain these feelings and I'll be hitting the field again tomorrow.

I'm so excited I just had to share. I'm going to edit some video of the throws and post it today or tomorrow. In the video the disc just looks like it's coming out FAST.

 

[sidewinder22]

2) This is a weird one, but it is the single biggest breakthrough I've had in 6 months or more: roll the wrist under at release. SW22 had posted something in one of the "Understability really (some #) of things" where he said that you could put understable or overstable wobble on a disc by rolling your wrist over or under respectively. I had my really flippy, 167 Tern with me and I just couldn't get it to hold a hyzer so I decided to try rolling my wrist under. HOLY CRAP! For some reason, and I can't explain this, my hit instantly felt stronger. And on every throw for about 20 throws in a row I felt the strongest ejection of the disc from my hand that I have ever felt.

The pronation allows better disc weight control and full extension and thumb push. See my adaption of BlakeT's water bottle drill:

 

[rhatton1]

A 3-step (for lack of a good term) puts substantially more forward momentum into the system, which makes it harder to adjust for in terms of rotation. We feel the momentum, we know that we can brace it and have it's force available, so rotation "feels" less important. We don't drive the hips around off the back foot... the stride is likely longer, the back leg comes along for the ride instead of driving the hips open.

Where this shows up drastically for me, is on an up-hill teepad. I am using the 3-step, but not getting the momentum... and losing the rotational power and end up with lack-luster distance. Often I do just as well or better on uphill teepads with a 1-step.

Ahh Jason, sometimes you just nail it.

I'm not used to courses with elevation, played one this sunday and was getting really frustrated with the lack of uphill power, everything felt just janky and wrong - betting it was this, might just standstill these in future until I get a chance to practice.

 

[tbr75]

Is there a benefit to pronating/rolling under at release vs already being there at max reach back?

Also been engaging the back leg vs dragging it along. Gained some power on hyzers. I think my plant is too wide to take full advantage though.

 

[Kodachrome]

Waaaaait, wait wait wait.

Roll the wrist under?

Does that not make you throw nose up?

 

[sidewinder22]

Is there a benefit to pronating/rolling under at release vs already being there at max reach back?

It's changing the swing plane then for better or for worse and telegraphing the disc for anhyzer at reachback.