Rules enforcement from top PDGA pros

[Casey 1988]

Small as in the amount it cost for a premium disc sold new so $25-$30? I mean some of the players are not making that much money from the sport.

Even top Skateborders were Making enough money to live in a house off sponsors and being in Ads in the late 1970's after 30 years of the sport starting after WWII to 1950 with the screwing Skate wheels into a piece of plywood often cut like mini surfboard or using old shortwave surfboards making Skateboards the way some are shaped now.

Now 90% The top disc golf players still do not make money off the sponsors to afford a house or if they do it is a very small house. Very few players are making money only from the sponsor to afford a house.

This is why the players need to have better Paid Pro players and less of them at the lowest levels of Pro from the companies if they are going to be playing these events, on male side at least.

 

[Steve West]

There is a bigger problem with having refs. That would turn enforcement into someone else's problem.

For an analogy: On a course that is pack-it-in pack-it-out, the players take some responsibility and will generally carry out most of their trash. Other players will also feel right about picking up after the players who forget.

If the park supplies trash cans, all of a sudden there are tons of stuff left on the course - sure, most of it in the trash cans. Maybe the park can keep up, but it is a lot of work that the players would otherwise do for themselves. Sometimes the park can't keep up and you get piles of trash stacked on and around the trash cans. Players don't feel obligated to clean those up.

If we add refs, we'll see tons of violations. The game will no longer be "try to follow the rules", it will be "try to get away with breaking the rules". Maybe the refs will be able to keep up, maybe not.

 

[robdeforge]

If we add refs, we'll see tons of violations. The game will no longer be "try to follow the rules", it will be "try to get away with breaking the rules". Maybe the refs will be able to keep up, maybe not.

Just for the record:
In the current climate we have, we see tons of violations. The game at the present is "try to follow the rules mostly except when it's awkward or SUPER inconvenient or I don't understand them".

 

[Jay Dub]

Just for the record:
In the current climate we have, we see tons of violations. The game at the present is "try to follow the rules mostly except when it's awkward or SUPER inconvenient or I don't understand them".

And if this "rep" stays with disc golf I can't ever see any sponsor taking the game seriously enough to add their support.

Also just for the record:
I believe disc golf will never be considered a serious sport as some want. I also believe trying to take disc golf in that direction is a waste of resources and time.

I'm not anti-pro tour just think it's best to keep it in perspective.

 

[Steve West]

Just for the record:
In the current climate we have, we see tons of violations. The game at the present is "try to follow the rules mostly except when it's awkward or SUPER inconvenient or I don't understand them".

Tons? I don't think so.

Anyway, the important part of your comment is "The game at the present is 'try to follow the rules mostly...'"

That's pretty good, and not something to risk by turning enforcement over to refs.

 

[robdeforge]

Tons? I don't think so.

Anyway, the important part of your comment is "The game at the present is 'try to follow the rules mostly...'"

That's pretty good, and not something to risk by turning enforcement over to refs.

I think I was arguing against a point you weren't making, my mistake. I agree with you that enforcement at the top level is better than any system of refs, although I think the first is so unlikely to happen (absent some unforeseeable change in circumstances) that it shouldn't really be considered as a viable option.

 

[Casey 1988]

There is a bigger problem with having refs. That would turn enforcement into someone else's problem.

For an analogy: On a course that is pack-it-in pack-it-out, the players take some responsibility and will generally carry out most of their trash. Other players will also feel right about picking up after the players who forget.

If the park supplies trash cans, all of a sudden there are tons of stuff left on the course - sure, most of it in the trash cans. Maybe the park can keep up, but it is a lot of work that the players would otherwise do for themselves. Sometimes the park can't keep up and you get piles of trash stacked on and around the trash cans. Players don't feel obligated to clean those up.

If we add refs, we'll see tons of violations. The game will no longer be "try to follow the rules", it will be "try to get away with breaking the rules". Maybe the refs will be able to keep up, maybe not.

Other Sports like NASCAR once the Rules changed from having a strictly Stock car with limited non stock model changes/fixes like the muffler 1-2 model years or newer from factory for Top Cup/Grand National in the 1960's and things like engine or body had to be Stock design but the metal outside of Roll cadge and removal of seats did not have to be strictly stock, the potential for cheating or finding loopholes in the rules was created.

Take Disc Golf, players were not enforced in 1980's seeing footage of players that did not start with Traditional Golf or were female with some Female only wearing sports bras or swim tops, they were playing without shirts on during PDGA events. When rules changed in 1990's eventually wearing a thin lifting tank or a mesh shirt. Now it is to the point players need to wear at least short sleeve non see though shirts at the events and at one point Pro players had to wear a collared shirt or long sleeve on final day of NT/Major events. enforcement of that rule has gotten better for B tier on up and some C tier. The other is using illegal discs, in the discs or markers that people use that are not PDGA approved has gotten way better for all PDGA events starting after 1990.

 

[Jimb]

Anyone else watch the first round Mid America Open coverage?

I only noticed "air high fives" even after something cool

Spoiler

an ace

happened.

I also noticed that when they were in the camera shot, it seemed like 1 or 2 players were always watching the person putting as they finished out the hole.

I wonder if these behavior changes are coincidental, if these players just follow these rules more regularly than the players who are on the filmed coverage more often, if maybe the DGPT and/or PDGA advised the players to pay more attention to some of the rules, or if it's just me.

In any case, props to Uli, Zachariah, Brian, and Andrew.

 

[Nova P]

Anyone else watch the first round Mid America Open coverage?

Just got home from there.* The TD was super serious about precautions and sticking to the guidelines, and this top-down good example filtered through a great many players it seems.

The staff at tournament central (a pavilion) were constantly wearing masks, both at the pavilion and while elsewhere doing their duties, gloves were available, boxes of masks were around for people to use, hand sanitizer was everywhere, etc. Access to the venue was quite controlled, with a staff member posted at the entrance to the site keeping an eye on who is coming and going, too, which was important because the tournament was limited to 100 people on site at a time. With cards of 4 on 18 holes (72 players), players arriving to play or sticking around for a couple of minutes after their round (another dozen or so), and the tourney staff, it was a tight squeeze to keep the city government happy.

(*: Last cash. Yay! =D )

 

[InDaWoodsDiscN419]

Sounds absolutely amazing...

Just got home from there.* The TD was super serious about precautions and sticking to the guidelines, and this top-down good example filtered through a great many players it seems.

The staff at tournament central (a pavilion) were constantly wearing masks, both at the pavilion and while elsewhere doing their duties, gloves were available, boxes of masks were around for people to use, hand sanitizer was everywhere, etc. Access to the venue was quite controlled, with a staff member posted at the entrance to the site keeping an eye on who is coming and going, too, which was important because the tournament was limited to 100 people on site at a time. With cards of 4 on 18 holes (72 players), players arriving to play or sticking around for a couple of minutes after their round (another dozen or so), and the tourney staff, it was a tight squeeze to keep the city government happy.

(*: Last cash. Yay! =D )

Now if we can only get all the players, TD's, and (non)spectators NATION-wide

To wear masks and have sanitizer+masks available AND use them, it will be miraculous!

Congrats on cashing! :hfive:

 

[robdeforge]

Last bump with new and relevant info (34:18 if the embedded time isn't working):



good to see that it appears players said something during this round.

 

[brutalbrutus]

https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/d...lation-system/

Level of Disciplinary Action

When an infraction occurs, the following disciplinary action system will be triggered. There are four levels of severity for discipline. Anyone on the event site may report infractions to a DGPT official. The DGPT will then investigate the infraction before assessing official discipline. Disciplinary action can apply to actions taken off of the event site, particularly related to Travel Policies. All disciplinary action details are confidential and kept between the DGPT and the offending person, other than announcements and basic information regarding disqualifications and/or suspensions from the DGPT or its events.

Verbal Warning: A verbal warning is issued during any level of infraction, unless a strong level of discipline is issued. Verbal warnings are documented by the DGPT and may build to a written warning, disqualification or suspension when accumulated. A verbal warning is most generally associated with a Grade 1 or 2 infraction.

Written Warning: A written warning is issued when Grade 1 infractions accumulate (displaying no change in behavior) or a Grade 2 or 3 infractions are assessed.

Disqualification from Event: Any person who is disqualified from an event, competitor or otherwise, will be asked to leave the event site immediately, or will be disallowed from entering the event site, for the duration of the event. Disqualification is issued when written warnings accumulate, or if a Grade 3 infraction occurs that the DGPT decides warrants immediate disqualification.

Suspension from Tour: After a person has been disqualified from an event, any further infractions may result in Suspension from the Disc Golf Pro Tour and all associated events. Past performance will not be affected. Suspensions may range from one event to several to the remainder of the season. Suspensions may stretch into the 2021 season.

Looks like they are at least planning to enforce the covid rules more strictly... we'll see if it actually happens.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Really fun to watch players of this caliber, play a course of this caliber.

 

[_MTL_]

https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/d...lation-system/

.

Yeah, they can't do this.

You can't restrict people from a PDGA event unless there is an equal qualification process.

 

[Steve West]

Yeah, they can't do this.

You can't restrict people from a PDGA event unless there is an equal qualification process.

What does "unless there is an equal qualification process" mean?

 

[davetherocketguy]

Yeah, they can't do this.

You can't restrict people from a PDGA event unless there is an equal qualification process.

I think that link is either broken or they took it down...I got a 404 error.

 

[ThrowBot]

What does "unless there is an equal qualification process" mean?

I'm sure it has something to do with besmirching the legacy of Lloyd Weema.

 

[krupicka]

I think that link is either broken or they took it down...I got a 404 error.

It wasn't copied correctly: https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/...ring-policy-covid-19-policy-violation-system/

 

[_MTL_]

I'm sure it has something to do with besmirching the legacy of Lloyd Weema.

Kind of. Elite series events require you to have a 900 rating to play. That's equitable across all players.

the USDGC and DGPT finale has qualifications to get in. Anyone can play those events and anyone can qualify (900 rule in effect).

You can't, however, just say "Tom you can't play this event I'm running" which is kinda what the DGPT announced. The proper protocal would be for them to submit a PDGA discipline request. The PDGA announced covid-19 related discipline issues.

There are only 6 ways someone can be denied entry into a PDGA event:
- A tier or higher and the person is not a PDGA member
- NT or Major and the person is not a certified official.
- the player is suspended by the PDGA
- The owner(s) of the course(s) in play does not allow a person access to their property (this can be the parks, city or private owner).
- The event is only hosting divisions that you do not qualify to play in (for example you are a 1000 rated pro, you can't plan an am only event).
- the player is not qualified to play based on 900 rule, didn't qualify from an event (USDGC), etc.

Many clubs think their local ban of a player means he can't play a PDGA event. Unless one of these things is the case, they are not correct.

 

[robdeforge]

I know I said that I wouldn't bump the thread with more info anymore, but I lied.


Time of 10:08 if that doesn't work

Patrick Brown incorrectly asserts that he cannot call a rules violation on himself. None of the other players on the card correct him.