Scorecard Apps in tournaments?

[CreemCheese]

What are your feelings on this? Is there any rule against it? I haven't played in a tournament in over 5 years, before smartphones were common, but wanting to start again in 2015. Sorry if this has been covered before.

My reasoning/thinking: I have horrible handwriting to begin with, add on top of that a neurological condition that makes gives me slight shakes random hand tics and tremors. I have to stand still rest for a few seconds, then I can usually get a few numbers out. So, it seems to me that it would be faster, easier, and more accurate to keep the scores on my phone, then fill out the card when I get back to tourney HQ. This would also cut down on math errors, since the app already added everything.

 

[Timeetyo]

What are your feelings on this? Is there any rule against it? I haven't played in a tournament in over 5 years, before smartphones were common, but wanting to start again in 2015. Sorry if this has been covered before.

My reasoning/thinking: I have horrible handwriting to begin with, add on top of that a neurological condition that makes gives me slight shakes random hand tics and tremors. I have to stand still rest for a few seconds, then I can usually get a few numbers out. So, it seems to me that it would be faster, easier, and more accurate to keep the scores on my phone, then fill out the card when I get back to tourney HQ. This would also cut down on math errors, since the app already added everything.

I always keep my own score (and usually the card's) on my phone, even in tournies. I mostly started it as I did this for my casual rounds (stat junkie) and carried it over. In a tourney, we always keep the card as usual in addition to what I do with my phone. Some notes:
- I have avoided 3 math errors for cardmates because of this. Definitely a plus here.
- This may be a plus or a negative - but you can always see mid round how the card is stacking up. I always like to know - but some people don't want to know if they are tied / winning / etc. But when you have it on your phone, it is easy to see at a glance.
- I would be very hesitant to keep just the card on the phone. The main reason is it is much easier to make a mistake on the app than it is on the card. For example - my app defaults to par for each player on each hole. You just hit the +/- for each players score. I did on one tourney enter a 2 instead of a 4 as a misclick being careless. It is much easier to misclick and not notice than to actually write the wrong number down.

 

[eday1022]

As a player, I have seen people do this in tournaments. Some to keep track of their score and others keep track of everyone's. I would say it would be good to have just to make sure someone doesn't screw up your score or cheat their score.

As a TD, I would expect score to be done every hole on the score card. I would not want groups of people taking up more time rewriting their entire card at the end of rounds. With the exception of rainy tournament where the card could get wet and they couldn't write on it.

I know in both sanctioned and non sanctioned events, I have seen people ask to not keep score or keep score the whole round (usually what I offer). Most of the time this is not an issue at all and the other players will allow You to skip your card carrying duties. Probably would be the best solution.

 

[JedV]

I recently played a tournament in the pouring rain. It wasn't feasible to write on the paper scorecards the TD provided. So I (and many others) used smartphone apps worth their phones safely closed in ziploc bags. Works wonders.

However, after the round we all had to copy the results to paper though to make it official. I think that the current PDGA requirements call for a physical card to be turned in. I could be wrong though.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Electronic devices for measuring distances or tracking scores are now allowed in PDGA events. Scorecards are still used as the official way to record scores, However, there was a non-PDGA test event in eastern Europe where every group posted scores live after each hole.

 

[scarpfish]

You do have to remember that score keeping duties are supposed to be shared. Do you really want your cardmates (who in a tournament you don't get to choose) handling your phone that has a whole lot of your personal stuff on it? Particularly if you're one of those types who gets a text every ten minutes.

There's also the what ifs. The phone gets dropped, or the battery on it dies. Someone unfamiliar with the app accidentally hits the wrong button gets the electronic record deleted before you have transferred it to paper.

Now keeping a second unofficial record on an electronic scorecard and cross checking it after the round? That's an idea I like. Keeps people from doing shenanigans with an eraser, stops adding errors, doesn't waste more paper, and unlike an official record, you don't have to hand it off.

 

[rallyguy]

I haven't had any tournament experience but use my phone a lot for casual rounds to keep score. It's very convienent, easy to use, and keeps math errors down. I have had my app crash a couple times though, and can only imagine the havoc that would cause in a tournament setting if there was no back up scorecard for the group.

 

[tylerc]

Electronic devices for measuring distances or tracking scores are now allowed in PDGA events. Scorecards are still used as the official way to record scores, However, there was a non-PDGA test event in eastern Europe where every group posted scores live after each hole.

this sounds awesome! a free app that could easily use a texting base to send in scores every hole but also hold them on a virtual scorecard. that would be awesome.

 

[teemkey]

Is there an app that can handle provisionals?

 

[Improbably]

Not a fault of the apps per se, but they give annoying people a way to be more annoying.

The next time someone who is not the designated scorekeeper asks me my score two seconds after I just told my score to the designated scorekeeper I am calling a courtesy violation.

 

[sunkissd]

why can't everyone keep track of everyone's score that way there is no problem? caddies can do that

 

[krupicka]

I think it is good to use it as a backup, but I would not use it to replace the paper scorecards. The last thing I would want to be doing as TD between rounds is debugging technology issues.

 

[Puckstopper]

The next time someone who is not the designated scorekeeper asks me my score two seconds after I just told my score to the designated scorekeeper I am calling a courtesy violation.

Go ahead. Good luck getting someone to second it...

I think it is good to use it as a backup, but I would not use it to replace the paper scorecards. The last thing I would want to be doing as TD between rounds is debugging technology issues.

Yep, change is bad. Lets go back and play with only Aero's and Aviar's and use paper scorecards when we could...

However, there was a non-PDGA test event in eastern Europe where every group posted scores live after each hole.

...do something like this and bring this game into the modern era.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Courtesy violations do not require a second. Scores are supposed to be stated by each player so everyone hears it and then repeated by the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper can be asked at any time about scores on the card. It's actually a courtesy violation to not keep score properly.

 

[JC17393]

Go ahead. Good luck getting someone to second it...

First one is a warning and doesn't require a second.

But I agree with your sentiment. That more than one person is keeping score in the group should not be grounds for a courtesy violation ever. The more layers of checks and balances, the better.

 

[Thumber]

I recently played a tournament in the pouring rain. It wasn't feasible to write on the paper scorecards the TD provided. So I (and many others) used smartphone apps worth their phones safely closed in ziploc bags. Works wonders.

However, after the round we all had to copy the results to paper though to make it official. I think that the current PDGA requirements call for a physical card to be turned in. I could be wrong though.

If you can tap a screen in a plastic bag you can use a short pencil to write on a card. I always keep a couple of gallon ziplock bags in my bag just to keep cards dry in wet weather.

I would not be happy if scores were only being recorded electronically. Way too easy to "accidentally" change a score.

I always appreciate TDs who provide high quality, thick scre cards. Thin paper ones blow.

 

[krupicka]

One of the benefits of paper cards is often being able to tell if a score was changed. Any app that would be used for scoring by players would have to have a history feature showing edits.

 

[DavidSauls]

The O.P. was talking about keeping score on a phone, then transcribing it to a scorecard at the end of the round. Rules-wise, I believe you could do this; the group only needs to turn in a correct scorecard. I'm not sure it would delay anything, since you'd save the time taken to add the scores, check and double-check them.

Then again, copying numbers from one source (phone) to another (scorecard) is an opportunity for new errors.

Relying on phone apps instead of paper scorecards improves a few aspects of scorekeeping, while introducing a host of problems, many of which have already been enumerated here. It will be interesting when features are available that automatically upload scores to the TD, in real time. Of course, this would introduce yet another host of pitfalls, and perhaps require a paper backup. But it might also have enough benefits to justify trying it.

 

[Timeetyo]

Electronic devices for measuring distances or tracking scores are now allowed in PDGA events. Scorecards are still used as the official way to record scores, However, there was a non-PDGA test event in eastern Europe where every group posted scores live after each hole.

This intrigues me as I think it is eventually going to be more common. Any details regarding the apps used, benefits and issues they saw?

 

[Cgkdisc]

This intrigues me as I think it is eventually going to be more common. Any details regarding the apps used, benefits and issues they saw?

Here's the link to the event and the website:
http://skoorin.com/?u=scorecard&ID=14661