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Just wait till Coach T leaves all these DG dinosaurs behind with their silly x-step and introduces us to the y-step which will gain you an extra 350 feet after mastering it.
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Stop using the power pocket, Stop it!
- Thread starter Sheep
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Just wait till Coach T leaves all these DG dinosaurs behind with their silly x-step and introduces us to the y-step which will gain you an extra 350 feet after mastering it.
TiltedFlipCurves
Birdie Member
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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So I just learned the explosive back foot technique at the cost of my ankle re-fracturing itself but I threw the disc effortlessly 500+ feet using a 300g Wham-O frisbee so I think he might be onto something here folks.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
There is such a huge explosion of new amateur channels (including mine) that it's quite confusing for any new players who want to learn to throw well & throw far.
For me there are two parts to the problem: the knowledge base of the instructor & how well that instructor moves him or herself. The production value, energy, and style of presentation vary too and drive a lot of popularity metrics.
I came here an eager newb with a lot of skepticism and an aversion to cult status. I had even seen the phrase "the cult of sidewinder" and "seabas22's murder dungeon" used elsewhere. For me, Seabas/SW's respect was earned, not assumed. I still check into everything he teaches me & so far his hit rate is nuts - it tends to check out intellectually and as well as the obvious effects in my own throwing (safety, efficiency, distance, and accuracy) when I finally learn to do something he teaches. There's video evidence of him crushing with very compact mechanics that look low impact on the body, and that mattered to me as an adult learner. I just think he doesn't rank as well as the "new kids on the block" on some of the popularity drivers, and that's a shame. I wish there were a few more examples of people that understand and demonstrate the motions as well as he does.
I personally have slowed down what I put out involving my own movements to work out my own form issues. I do not want to contribute more examples of underdeveloped or incorrect motion. It bothers me that there's such an overgrowth of those out there - including in the two most visible platforms which shall not be named in this post. I'm going to shift to a little series on the form evolution & early vs. late videos I put together since they seem a little distinct from most other content, they're still teaching me a lot, and I do think they can help people be their own informed skeptic when they look at various sources out there.
jenb's comment is really meaningful to me. I have recently been tempted to go after concepts like "back leg throwing," or "up up down up" explicitly on my channel, but those concepts are inextricably linked to the presenters that it seems a little better to take the high road in the long run. I also don't have good enough mechanics to competently show the clear difference between those and their effects myself. I decided to do a segment on Drew Gibson's form evolution first where I'll try out the "there has been a lot of confusion and controversy about leg and hip action... you be the judge" preamble. I really don't know what's "best." Maybe it doesn't matter!
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Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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I mean, we all know why. He probably even knows why.
People want flashy high production value and energy. People dont want a 15 minute video explaining the proper thing and the theory behind it.
I get downvotes just posting video replies on my video's in here as it is which is hilarious. Its a hidden video only available to the linked people and people downvote it. Why? My responses is probably to long. But I don't see any comments or rebuttle.
Production value seems to overtake any amount of correctness. And in a sense, you should have at least a certain level of production value.
But people not clicking into video's to learn the finer details, they want the "hot pills" the "quick fixes"
And.. well
None of us teach that.
Not to turd on overthrow, because I think they are doing good things, but they are pushing the "make money" line for their brand, and there isn't anything wrong with it. But that's their model. It's not about deep form theory which excites some of us in here, its about getting some basic info to the viewers out there to help them. The only downside to the content is that generally its missing that 1 thing or 2 things that really connect all the dots of what the video is about. Because they are making it quick for starters to have retention and not roll throughs on the video's.
And, well. He doesn't fully understand form yet. Which was hilarious watching him try and talk to oakley about form who knows more about form than him.
To be honest, 5-ish years ago I would've been pretty lost with his Youtube videos if I didn't have his supplemental explanations and instruction here on DGCR. His videos are actually quite unstructured without prior exposure to disc golf form for the most part, which is why his reach is basically acquaintance level. It's not only because the production value is visibly amateur or because of his non-flashy persona.
This is perfectly fine, you don't need to go all nitty gritty almost anywhere else than actual coaching. That's also where their main source of income is, Josh is a full-time instructor and not just a Youtuber. If experienced "gurus" like yourself are able to help OT get better at it, disc golf wins.
He's pretty aware of his shortcomings, but it's way better to have this content out than not. Truth is he's still better at disc golf coaching than anyone I've worked with in person so far.
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I only started making videos to supplement what was discussed here, not the other way around. I've put a ton more info and effort on this site than what I've put on youtube.
There is some basic structure laid out in the Instructional Vids thread.
Not saying I'm better, but I don't think you have worked with me in person which your post seems to imply.
By "in person" I meant offline in this case, and I live in Finland so that would've been pretty difficult with you anyway
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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If he was aware of his shortcomings and what not, he'd make far more effort to work with other coaches. He does talk to a few, but there is also a group of us in a chat who watch his video's and literally scream at the screen cause he misses that one thing.
He's trying though and that's the main point, but he could be further along. But don't fool yourself with what's going on.
This is a business for them. It's not about you or anyone, its about them making money. If people are paying and happy, then he's only going to go so much further into how much he learns and how much he tries to learn. if that means continually missing things because he wants to be in his little zone, then that's where it will stay.
A lot of us do this from the passion of what we have with disc golf. Would we like to make money? Of course. But we are not doing it as a business. The information you'll get from us here at DGCR is going to be far more and far more in depth than what you'll get from your "youtube coaches." Because they are doing it to make money first.
I'll horn toot a bit. Your understanding of mechanics and correlations is groundbreaking to disc golf. But people poo poo back on you though because they dont understand that the video's are supplements. I knew they were, a few others of us all know they are. But people just think "that" is your content, not the 4 pages of text you write with 15 images depicting what youre talking about along with multiple videos. Yeah.
That takes effort.
The best part about this format though vs youtube is that the format in here pushes discussion and growth among all of us where we can all learn together, ask questions and discuss things further and learn.
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I think one of the most fundamental keys to throwing (backhand) farther than 300 feet even with a 4 speed midrange, at least for myself, was finally understanding the concept of shoulder to hip separation.. but for backhand.
I'm a predominantly FH thrower who has a good understanding of how baseball players throw and one of the biggest things to learn and learn well is shoulder to hip separation as it can lead to faster, harder throws that minimizes chance of injury. But I didn't quite think to apply that to throwing BH.
The turning of the shoulders and the locking of the hips is absolutely fundamental for getting that burst of speed when you un-cork yourself and the disc naturally flings out of the hand and when you finally do it for the first time, it feels great. Especially when you are able to throw 350+ feet with zero runup using a midrange or putter.
Anyways, I think anyone whose out there coaching is doing a huge service for the community and also props because coaching DG is not easy. Not every technique is going to work for everyone. Just gotta find what feels good and go with it.
I'm a predominantly FH thrower who has a good understanding of how baseball players throw and one of the biggest things to learn and learn well is shoulder to hip separation as it can lead to faster, harder throws that minimizes chance of injury. But I didn't quite think to apply that to throwing BH.
The turning of the shoulders and the locking of the hips is absolutely fundamental for getting that burst of speed when you un-cork yourself and the disc naturally flings out of the hand and when you finally do it for the first time, it feels great. Especially when you are able to throw 350+ feet with zero runup using a midrange or putter.
Anyways, I think anyone whose out there coaching is doing a huge service for the community and also props because coaching DG is not easy. Not every technique is going to work for everyone. Just gotta find what feels good and go with it.
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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Honestly, one of the key fundamentals to 400 feet is really really simple.
Clean up your form. Stop throwing hard, get the nose down.
You don't have to have perfect form to hit 400.
You have to have far better form to hit 500+
But the things this guy teaches are going to get people hurt. When you're teaching something like squish the bug which there is litterally 50+ video's now at this point from major athletic trainers out there in larger industries going "DONT DO THIS ITS BAD"
And its not "its bad because it doesn't work" its them saying "it doesn't work and can cause injury"
When your whole schtick is basically an infomercial selling the secret sauce with huge disclaimers like "this takes forever to learn and you gotta be super athletic or my style will never work for you" ... There is some wacky stuff going on.
But honestly. I don't think its a forward thinking scam. I think he litterally feels this is how it works because he.. well doesn't understand.
He continually keeps releasing video's that are all basically saying "dont do what the fundamentals of every player out there who is successful does"
Thats like the last 3 video's.
So maybe he is doing it on purpose at this point, who knows.
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Not sure what you are implying here?
Not sure what you are implying here?
Sorry I should have given it more context! Thought that it was a good example of DG weight shift and form demonstrated in golf. And clearly no "squishing the bug" "back leg throwing" etc. because that would be impossible.
Dr. Steve Brule
Bogey Member
Not really sure why we have 4 pages of text mostly about ****ting on somebodys Youtube content on the Dgcourse technique forum?
Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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Pretty simple actually.
We are talking about technique in here, to talk about technique and study technique we must talk about ALL technique, good and bad.
You can learn a lot from looking at bad technique and bad teaching.
And while this does turn into a turd drop, it's essential to talk about why we should drop duces and the reason for the duce dropping.
We also have a chance to look though the content that we would normally just write off as garbage content to see if there are any threads of good ideas or understanding to come from it.
This is honestly the problem with our more "snow flake" oriented culture now days. Criticism is something people shy away from even giving at this point. So much so that we cannot even handle the slightest bit of corrections as a population without exploding and completely shutting down. Examples? see tiktok. Like, 80% of the content is that. People with no mental fortitude complaining.
So what does that have to do with taking a large dump on this youtuber? Practicing critisism, talking about things when you haev to talk about things that are negative.
So, unfortunately people will roll in on something like this and because of this new culture of "omg dont say anything mean" they have no idea how to read a thread like this where its a discussion picking apart all the things. And maybe we get a bit more direct with what we are saying, but discussion is something that is quickly disappearing in culture as a whole, and being that this is a Forum, generally this is going to be full of older internet folks as we have larger attention spans and a completely different moral up bringing as children's, so we are able to have these discussions without getting offended with each other while we try and hash out the good the bad and the ugly.
Also, there is like more than 4 pages, there is like 10 threads at this point. The duce level is at elephant standards.
TLDR: It's important to talk about the bad things in life as well as the good, that way we can learn from mistakes.
Dr. Steve Brule
Bogey Member
Not a big fan of the snow flake oriented culture these days either and I do encourage practicing criticism. This thread just stands out from the others.. Most topics are about different techniques and drills and what not...you know, pure discussion about technique with good examples and not targetting a person and see if there is a hint of truth in his sayings and making him a bad example.
Covid brought a lot of new content creators and players into our sport and some are trying to fish for their attention to get views..Plenty of people reviewing distance drivers that can barely throw 250ft. All in all Youtube is full of crap channels "selling" false information for views. Its up to all of us to understand which ones to avoid.
Covid brought a lot of new content creators and players into our sport and some are trying to fish for their attention to get views..Plenty of people reviewing distance drivers that can barely throw 250ft. All in all Youtube is full of crap channels "selling" false information for views. Its up to all of us to understand which ones to avoid.
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Sheep
Sir, This is a Wendy's
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There is a bit to learn from this content.
And yeah, its a bit of a running gag now in here is the other part to understand.
But there are little hints of stuff to learn from in here, as well as a place to just see outright honesty about how bad it is.
Some of us, like me, are a bit more brash and uncaring about the words we choose to express our opinions.
As for in my case I'm quite heavy handed about it because I got into coaching because I'm so injured and I kept hurting myself.
And watching people teach things that will get others hurt really bothers me. Especially when its an outright fake sales pitch. And people are absolutely stuck on this content like its gospel. As well, him outright lying about what players are doing in the pro circuit to justify his explanations when its nowhere close to what is going on.
So if anyone with a level head is trying to find out "is this dude legit?" they can see stuff like this where we poke a bit of fun at it as well as break it down at the same time.
I cannot help but watch this stuff and outright laugh about how bad and fake it is.
You're preaching to the choir here.
Your comments seem like they would be more effective and would reach the desired audience if you posted in the comments section of the video. How many people are here for a dissertation on how to dissect other peoples videos? (I hope you take my comments as the constructive criticism they are intended to be, lol. It's only fair since you have already accused people who can't take criticism of being snowflakes.)
