Trying to get my backhand form to 400ft and beyond

[sidewinder22]

I'd suspect your posture and position from the door frame.

I broke my tibia playing and there was definitely some fear factor returning, but I found One Leg Drill really helped.

 

[Dundee]

I'd suspect your posture and position from the door frame.

I broke my tibia playing and there was definitely some fear factor returning, but I found One Leg Drill really helped.

Here's a video of me trying the door frame



I still can't feel any weight on my front leg. It feels like there is a lot of tension in my rear foot at the toes. It seems like my rear foot is what's actually generating the force to pull on the door frame.

I experimented with different distances from the door frame and these seemed to feel the best. Near the end of each setup, it feels like a can get tiny amount of weight on my front foot the more turned back I am. Whenever that happens, I feel a total loss of pull on the door frame.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Your rear foot is too far north and stance too narrow/too much pressure on front foot. Your elbow should be right over the instep/ball of rear foot.

2 . Hard to tell east/west here, suspect rear foot might be a little too west. You should feel a straight line force from rear foot pulling back thru the arm.

3. If you let go of door frame your front foot is not able to catch your spine as your hips have already slide over top past it. You should drop an inch or two if you let go putting a lot of pressure into the heel. You should not be able to put much pressure into the front heel unless you actually let go of door frame. If you can put pressure into the front heel while still holding on frame, then you are over-turning backwards and not moving laterally enough.

 

[Dundee]

1. Your rear foot is too far north and stance too narrow/too much pressure on front foot. Your elbow should be right over the instep/ball of rear foot.

2 . Hard to tell east/west here, suspect rear foot might be a little too west. You should feel a straight line force from rear foot pulling back thru the arm.

3. If you let go of door frame your front foot is not able to catch your spine as your hips have already slide over top past it. You should drop an inch or two if you let go putting a lot of pressure into the heel. You should not be able to put much pressure into the front heel unless you actually let go of door frame. If you can put pressure into the front heel while still holding on frame, then you are over-turning backwards and not moving laterally enough.

View attachment 327404

1. What do you mean by my rear foot being too north? Which way are you calling north? Are you saying I don't have my rear foot offset enough (on two separate rails)? I will say in this image, I feel absolutely no pressure on my front foot. Tons of pressure in the toe of my rear foot.

2. Still confused on the direction. I don't really feel much in my arm. Just in my rear foot's toe and up my rear leg.

3. I get I'm confused again. At 0:50 in the video, you say when you sit down, you can feel the weight going into your front heel. It looks like you're still holding onto the door frame in the video? At 0:50, are you still just feeling the weight on your rear foot?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. North is targetward.
2. Shouldn't really feel anything in the arm other than stretch.
3. Just a little a bit of pressure shifting into the front heel. The door frame should pull/bounce you back away from heel/target after touching ground. You shouldn't be able to stay with a lot of pressure on the heel unless you actually let go.

 

[Dundee]

1. North is targetward.
2. Shouldn't really feel anything in the arm other than stretch.
3. Just a little a bit of pressure shifting into the front heel. The door frame should pull/bounce you back away from heel/target after touching ground. You shouldn't be able to stay with a lot of pressure on the heel unless you actually let go.

I tried this again. I spread my feet out and put my rear foot closer to the door frame.



I notice in your image that your throwing arm's shoulder is much lower to the ground than mine. Does that mean I don't have enough side bend?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Nice shirt!
2. Your feet are just sitting flat on the ground instead of moving/bouncing your heels/body.

 

[Dundee]

1. Nice shirt!
2. Your feet are just sitting flat on the ground instead of moving/bouncing your heels/body.

You listen to the Murlocs? Very cool!

Here is another video



I've also started watching a lot of Shawn Clement videos recently. Went out and got a heavy hammer and have been trying to few the momentum of the swing like he does.

It feels like my front heel needs to come down around the top of the backswing. I'm not sure, but it feels like I'm sitting down a little bit better in this video with the hammer. Like I don't even have to think about it. It's been hard to translate this into a disc golf swing though. Thoughts?

 

[Brychanus]

Since DFD is in my top five favorite drills of all time:

Bounciness/shifting foot to foot looked a little better to me. Keep that loose and relaxed and try not to freeze up when you fix details.

Some of the other posture looks improved. However, you are bringing your posture/leading hip way too far over your plant foot, which if you let go of the frame would mean you'd go flying off balance toward the target rather than bracing with tilt to swing. It would also be hard on the hip and knee if you threw like that.


Notice that relative to the ground, SW's throwing shoulder is WAY lower than the rear shoulder relative to the ground, whereas yours are almost the same height. It's very hard to load through the lats/core properly if you try to throw without that. You need side bend when you reach back to grab the frame.

 

[Dundee]

Since DFD is in my top five favorite drills of all time:

Bounciness/shifting foot to foot looked a little better to me. Keep that loose and relaxed and try not to freeze up when you fix details.

Some of the other posture looks improved. However, you are bringing your posture/leading hip way too far over your plant foot, which if you let go of the frame would mean you'd go flying off balance toward the target rather than bracing with tilt to swing. It would also be hard on the hip and knee if you threw like that.
View attachment 328865

Notice that relative to the ground, SW's throwing shoulder is WAY lower than the rear shoulder relative to the ground, whereas yours are almost the same height. It's very hard to load through the lats/core properly if you try to throw without that. You need side bend when you reach back to grab the frame.

View attachment 328868



View attachment 328867

So I tried different movements. I don't think I have this right, but this video is the closest I got to fixing the lead hip position problem. It feels like my rear side is trying to move towards the target (if that makes any sense). Felt really weird and unusual.



I need to figure out how to get my lead shoulder even lower. It felt really unusual to get my shoulder that low like in the video.

Also, does this drill tire out your rear leg after a bit?

 

[Brychanus]

So I tried different movements. I don't think I have this right, but this video is the closest I got to fixing the lead hip position problem. It feels like my rear side is trying to move towards the target (if that makes any sense). Felt really weird and unusual.



I need to figure out how to get my lead shoulder even lower. It felt really unusual to get my shoulder that low like in the video.

Also, does this drill tire out your rear leg after a bit?

A little better overall.

1. Keep messing with your feet and position relative to the frame until you fully extend and land like SW before swinging through. The arm should feel like it's unwinding automatically and effortlessly from the ground up when you're getting close.

2. Shoulder height: SW has very good mobility and body control in his drills. I recommend supplementing with this one at 0:24. If you are having trouble easily getting coiled all the way back with your face in your elbowpit, you probably need to put in some work there. I've worked a lot with these and then graduated to more momentous versions of this same idea. It works.



3. Yes, my rear leg eventually gets tired against the compression/leverage. Actually, in the past few months I now always tend to get most tired in the glutes, hammies, and calves, which makes sense due to how the moves work and my otherwise sedentary day job. I usually supplement my drills and throwing with exercises focused on the areas where I am weakest/fatigue/lack mobility. I think many players underutilize supplemental training, but for you I would put the most focus into moving better first.

 

[sidewinder22]

You want to swing more undone and unashamed from your hip man like Uncle Murl:

 

[Dundee]

A little better overall.

1. Keep messing with your feet and position relative to the frame until you fully extend and land like SW before swinging through. The arm should feel like it's unwinding automatically and effortlessly from the ground up when you're getting close.

2. Shoulder height: SW has very good mobility and body control in his drills. I recommend supplementing with this one at 0:24. If you are having trouble easily getting coiled all the way back with your face in your elbowpit, you probably need to put in some work there. I've worked a lot with these and then graduated to more momentous versions of this same idea. It works.



3. Yes, my rear leg eventually gets tired against the compression/leverage. Actually, in the past few months I now always tend to get most tired in the glutes, hammies, and calves, which makes sense due to how the moves work and my otherwise sedentary day job. I usually supplement my drills and throwing with exercises focused on the areas where I am weakest/fatigue/lack mobility. I think many players underutilize supplemental training, but for you I would put the most focus into moving better first.

Ok, I'm coming to another realization that is probably a huge roadblock. There's so much talk about "using the ground" in everything I watch related to drills and other sports. It's mentioned in Door Frame Pt2. I have never once felt like I'm using the ground. I really don't feel "connected" to the ground if that makes any sense. I've never felt it doing any athletic move, other than jumping, which is probably why I feel wasn't very athletic, fast, or quick when I played sports. I wonder if this issue is really stopping any progression.

Regarding the other points, I haven't even bothered really with trying to go through a throwing motion on the door frame drill. It feels like I have to consciously think about making a throw motion. And it really doesn't feel like I'm pulling the door frame towards the target when I do it. More like 45 degrees to the right of the target.

 

[Brychanus]

Ok, I'm coming to another realization that is probably a huge roadblock. There's so much talk about "using the ground" in everything I watch related to drills and other sports. It's mentioned in Door Frame Pt2. I have never once felt like I'm using the ground. I really don't feel "connected" to the ground if that makes any sense. I've never felt it doing any athletic move, other than jumping, which is probably why I feel wasn't very athletic, fast, or quick when I played sports. I wonder if this issue is really stopping any progression.

Regarding the other points, I haven't even bothered really with trying to go through a throwing motion on the door frame drill. It feels like I have to consciously think about making a throw motion. And it really doesn't feel like I'm pulling the door frame towards the target when I do it. More like 45 degrees to the right of the target.

If you get the real points of the door frame drill including the ground forces/connection, one big revelation is that you won't need to think about making a throw motion - it will start on its on when you land in the plant.
Having had very little other sports background, my body had a lot of trouble finding any connection with the ground at all.

An example on ground connection: In hindsight, the closest thing I'd done before were shuffle or crossover side kicks where almost all of the power comes from the weight shift/mAss leading/ground force/connection. Trouble for me has been taking the same principles and transmitting them up through my backhand. When my drive leg works more like this in standstill or X-step I get much better throws. It's because the leg and hip action and leveraging is "the same" except for the posture/chain for kicking instead of throwing. It's the same thing the rear leg should be doing in DFD or throws.

I do think it's helpful to tinker with whatever athletic moves you've done before and figure out how much the ground is helping you generate power- if you did it growing up it probably became unconscious and automatic at some point. And you were probably better at some moves than others...

 

[Dundee]

If you get the real points of the door frame drill including the ground forces/connection, one big revelation is that you won't need to think about making a throw motion - it will start on its on when you land in the plant.
Having had very little other sports background, my body had a lot of trouble finding any connection with the ground at all.

An example on ground connection: In hindsight, the closest thing I'd done before were shuffle or crossover side kicks where almost all of the power comes from the weight shift/mAss leading/ground force/connection. Trouble for me has been taking the same principles and transmitting them up through my backhand. When my drive leg works more like this in standstill or X-step I get much better throws. It's because the leg and hip action and leveraging is "the same" except for the posture/chain for kicking instead of throwing. It's the same thing the rear leg should be doing in DFD or throws.

I do think it's helpful to tinker with whatever athletic moves you've done before and figure out how much the ground is helping you generate power- if you did it growing up it probably became unconscious and automatic at some point. And you were probably better at some moves than others...

More video of me not making any progress:


Are y'all consciously thinking about keeping your lead knee from "collapsing" like mine does? My lead knee just naturally does this. You've mentioned that my lead hip gets out in front too far relative to my lead knee. If I just had my knee more posted and towards the target, would that help? I see in golf videos that some people have their lead knee more out than mine, less "collapsed". I'm not sure if it's one of those things that isn't actually happening, but looks like it is.

Also new view perspective in that video. I thought I've been leading more with my butt, but it doesn't look it from the head-on view. How am I supposed to get my butt more towards the target? It's like I'm just moving my hip towards the target.

Also, I tried exaggerating the side bend in this video. Felt like I was trying to do my best Kevin Jones impression

 

[Dundee]

You want to swing more undone and unashamed from your hip man like Uncle Murl:

Love Amby, wish I could move anything like him. I found The Murlocs through King Gizzard as I'm a huge fan of them. In several of these videos of been wearing King Gizzard shirts lol. You should try them out if you haven't already.

 

[sidewinder22]

Some dance lessons would probably help you a lot then.

I never noticed the shirts before. I love the Murlocs, but not a big fan of King Gizzard for some reason.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is your DF vid in slow motion?

1. You are too over your toes, so your stance/feet need to move closer inline to the DF/arm/head. This is probably why you say you feel your throw going 45 degrees offline from the DF.

2. Your front foot needs to stride target ward into wider stance. Rear foot will probably also need to move target ward after moving stance closer inline to DF.

3. You allow your head to turn back too far. Try to not let your head turn back past your rear foot angle. Moving your stance closer to target should also help restrict your ability to turn back too far. Play around with distance from door frame, closer to DF allows you to turn back further, too far from DF stops you from turning back.

 

[Dundee]

Yes, the DF videos are in slo motion.

I've been watching your "Drill" playlist videos on YouTube. This one was a little eye opening:


I think I may have been way too aggressive with trying to sit or fall. This guy makes it seem like a really small fall. When you fall or sit down, does it feel you are moving around your trail side (like around your back) towards the target? And the weight immediately goes into your front foot heel?

I think I have been trying to do this movement from my front (as in chest). Which is causing me to get closer to the "ball" and over-extend early. It kind of seems natural to "roll your butt" towards the target after doing the movement I described before.

Here's my video (in normal speed):


I know my side bend is inadequate, and I'm probably a little too far over my toes still. But I wanted to see what the "move around my back towards the target" looked like and get your thoughts.

 

[Dundee]

Some dance lessons would probably help you a lot then.

I never noticed the shirts before. I love the Murlocs, but not a big fan of King Gizzard for some reason.

Interesting. Everyone I know who likes the Murlocs, also like King Gizzard. However, some of KG's stuff is an acquired taste, so I can definitely understand not being a fan. Both are pretty small bands. Would have never expected anyone on here to recognize the Murlocs shirt.

Amby's voice is unique. There's just something about it. He sings on Presumptious, Let Me Mend the Past, and Billabong Valley. All really good, if you haven't listened to them.