[Innova] Vulcan topped AJ Destroyers?

[espijosh]

I have a pink champ 175 that was a fundraiser disc for Eagles Wings disc golf, which is trying to promote disc golf to poor kids in mexico. A local pro Jim Shultz got them donated, This disc sucks. At first I thought I was buying a beffy destroyer because the disc is flat with a hpl, but it was not overstable. I had a pretty good flight but just didn't go anywhere, consistantly falling short of my eagles by 30 ft at the park. I would be interested to here how ones with dome and a lower parting line would fly?

 

[Mr. Plow]

I have a pink champ 175 that was a fundraiser disc for Eagles Wings disc golf, which is trying to promote disc golf to poor kids in mexico. A local pro Jim Shultz got them donated, This disc sucks. At first I thought I was buying a beffy destroyer because the disc is flat with a hpl, but it was not overstable. I had a pretty good flight but just didn't go anywhere, consistantly falling short of my eagles by 30 ft at the park. I would be interested to here how ones with dome and a lower parting line would fly?

A less stable Destroyer should be MUCH longer than an Eagle. Your flight description is very vague, were you turning it over? Most of the flat Star Destroyers I've seen are less stable than their domey counterparts, I'm guessing the same is true of Champ Destroyers. Still, it doesn't explain your distance issue.

 

[discspeed]

A less stable Destroyer should be MUCH longer than an Eagle. Your flight description is very vague, were you turning it over? Most of the flat Star Destroyers I've seen are less stable than their domey counterparts, I'm guessing the same is true of Champ Destroyers. Still, it doesn't explain your distance issue.

I'm not sure why it would be short of an Eagle either, but I do agree that the Vulcan top kills the glide. Compared to a Wraith the Archon glides less, turns more, and ends up shorter if put on the same line. So it makes sense to me that the Vulcan top would have a similar effect on the Destroyer since it is so similar to the Wraith.

 

[espijosh]

I'm not sure why it would be short of an Eagle either, but I do agree that the Vulcan top kills the glide. Compared to a Wraith the Archon glides less, turns more, and ends up shorter if put on the same line. So it makes sense to me that the Vulcan top would have a similar effect on the Destroyer since it is so similar to the Wraith.

I don't know how else to describe it it looks like if has a good flight path whether on a hyser flip or a S shot but just doesn't go anywhere. I throw my eagles about 375 at the park, 400 on big anny D lines and the des/vul just ends up about 340. It just doesn't carry. Like I said it is table top flat with a hpl, with the vulcan top. Also the combination makes for a very blunt nose, not like a destroyer.

 

[discspeed]

I don't know how else to describe it it looks like if has a good flight path whether on a hyser flip or a S shot but just doesn't go anywhere. I throw my eagles about 375 at the park, 400 on big anny D lines and the des/vul just ends up about 340. It just doesn't carry. Like I said it is table top flat with a hpl, with the vulcan top. Also the combination makes for a very blunt nose, not like a destroyer.

You might have something else altogether. Did you say it was a CFR? I don't have any here in front of me, but I remember the Vulcan top Destroyers being sharper nosed than the normal ones.

 

[Ace D]

i have seen this, and i want one. definitely resembles the vulcan top.

 

[cfair]

....f'in A! Innova's going to have another freaking disc that some people will scramble over for some dumb reason... or it will just be more of a reason the production sucks...

 

[Ace D]

i've been seeing these lately, but also traded for an apparent vulcan topped xcaliber just this past evening. star xcal, normal looking, but you can easily see that ridge on the flight plate.

 

[OcDiscGolf]

It seems Dave has put this rumor to rest for now...

From the "Ask Dave Thread" on PDGA.com:

Dave,

Has there been a recent mold change for Star Destroyers? I've heard rumors that there were Vulcan-top Star DS's stamped with the regular Star DS stamp and shipped, and I'm pretty sure that the rumors are accurate. Actually I'm not certain about the new top being from the Vulcan but it sure does look like a different top than previous Star DS's I've thrown. Can you shed any light on this? Was the Star DS mold changed? How and why?


Dave's Response:

Thanks!
The recent runs have an odd cooling property. It makes it appear as if there is a mini thumtrac, when there is none. Sometimes it is more pronounced than other times. It is not a mold change.

 

[Carter]

I saw a stack of champ xcalibers at my local PIAS with a strikingly similar top to the vulcan. The star were normal w/ ridiculous dome, but the champs were definitely fishy.

 

[EL-KABONG]

It seems Dave has put this rumor to rest for now...

Dave,

Has there been a recent mold change for Star Destroyers? I've heard rumors that there were Vulcan-top Star DS's stamped with the regular Star DS stamp and shipped, and I'm pretty sure that the rumors are accurate. Actually I'm not certain about the new top being from the Vulcan but it sure does look like a different top than previous Star DS's I've thrown. Can you shed any light on this? Was the Star DS mold changed? How and why?


Dave's Response:

Thanks!
The recent runs have an odd cooling property. It makes it appear as if there is a mini thumtrac, when there is none. Sometimes it is more pronounced than other times. It is not a mold change.:

Says the guy with everything to lose if they don't make spec ^

My BS detector is pegged. For a 'odd cooling issue' it got the champ and the star in equally odd identical ways...

 

[Technohic]

Just got a Vulcan today and right away thought the top was cool and my first thought was "What would happen if they put that top on other molds?" (hence finding this thread.) In theory I am assuming that nose down is either easier or simulated a bit with this top and it would only be "logical" for Innova to experiment with it on other molds. Perhaps it is why the Vulcan is so flippy (hearsay, I haven't thrown it yet) for such a fast disc. Similar to an Epic being tuned understable.


I don't know. Again, I haven't thrown it yet. I am just finding it fascinating as it appears to be a step in the direction of looking at the aerodynamics of a disc. Makes me wonder if we are getting close to a step much like when they went from Frisbee-like discs to modern drivers.

 

[nfrost]

Just got a Vulcan today and right away thought the top was cool and my first thought was "What would happen if they put that top on other molds?" (hence finding this thread.) In theory I am assuming that nose down is either easier or simulated a bit with this top and it would only be "logical" for Innova to experiment with it on other molds. Perhaps it is why the Vulcan is so flippy (hearsay, I haven't thrown it yet) for such a fast disc. Similar to an Epic being tuned understable.


I don't know. Again, I haven't thrown it yet. I am just finding it fascinating as it appears to be a step in the direction of looking at the aerodynamics of a disc. Makes me wonder if we are getting close to a step much like when they went from Frisbee-like discs to modern drivers.

Not sure if you're aware but the new speed 11 driver 'Archon' is the Wraith bottom and Vulcan top.

 

[hipster]

Not sure if you're aware but the new speed 11 driver 'Archon' is the Wraith bottom and Vulcan top.

I dig my Vulcan most of the time, today not so much. Maybe I should pull out the 2011 Am CFR Archon?

 

[Technohic]

Not sure if you're aware but the new speed 11 driver 'Archon' is the Wraith bottom and Vulcan top.

I didn't realize that until just before posting here when I actually read through this thread. I don't usually go for fast discs except for a little screwing around every now and then but I might check out the Archon here as well knowing this. Just out of curiosity.

 

[Sean Johnson]

Has anyone seen these in DX yet? I just got a DX Destroyer from a tourney and the shoulder seemed taller than usual. There is also a ring of sorts halfway up the shoulder that reminds me of Discmania discs. I know it's not the same top as Discmania's, and it's definitely not as pronounced but it's there.

It's worth noting that I've got zero experience with DX Destroyers, though I used to throw Pro and Star.

 

[shoe59]

^ ^ ^ Vulcan-Top DX Destroyer ^ ^ ^

 

[Technohic]

I can't really tell from the pic. It looks like at the point where the Vulcan top is flat, in the pic looks domey, which makes where the Vulcan top dips down on the wing not look so pronounced. It could very well be a Vulcan top or it could just be domey.

 

[RhynoBoy]

Says the guy with everything to lose if they don't make spec ^

I didn't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been covered.

A disc manufacturer can change a mold without PDGA Spec re-approval as long as they don't change the name of a disc. (Think about the Gator with and without the bead) (Or maybe the Vulcan top destroyer)

However, if the name of a disc is changed, even though the mold is not, the disc must be resubmitted to the PDGA for approval.


Completely backwards of how I think it should be, but this would allow Innova to make Destroyers with a different top, without being out of specs, or having an "unapproved" disc.

 

[OcDiscGolf]

Not sure if you're aware but the new speed 11 driver 'Archon' is the Wraith bottom and Vulcan top.

Wraith bottom and Katana top.