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Not a knock against you, but I think there is little I hate more than competing against the "...but did you have fun?" types.
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Mental State: Ratings vs Win?
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
Not a knock against you, but I think there is little I hate more than competing against the "...but did you have fun?" types.
klodkrawler05
Birdie Member
I'm envious of your distance! At least with most of the MA3 cards I've played on you'd typically be out throwing the rest of us by 50-100'.
Assuming your signature is still correct, have you considered playing a league round with nothing faster than the Wasp/Malta's? take all the DD's and Fairways out of your bag so you can't step up to that tee and decide to ignore the game plan and go for the birdie on the tough holes? I know that's kind of counter intuitive to my previous post about running everything during leagues. But my theory is that you probably throw your mids further than I throw my fairways so you'll still have the distance needed to get around the course. And being a league round it'll be a bit easier to focus on playing each shot well compared to a completely casual round. But it won't quite have the pressure of a tournament so you won't feel like you need those faster discs "just in case" Assuming things on paper go exactly like that in real life you'd hopefully discover a few holes where you score better throwing slower discs, and you can figure out where those Fairway and Distance discs are truly valuable.
Just an idea, sorry OP for derailing your thread.
Not a knock against you, but I think there is little I hate more than competing against the "...but did you have fun?" types.
No offense taken.
I think there is little I hate more getting beat by the "...but did you have fun?" types.
FTFY
Not a knock against you, but I think there is little I hate more than competing against the "...but did you have fun?" types.
It is possible to be focused on winning yet still enjoy the competition.
.
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No offense taken.
I think there is little I hate more getting beat by the "...but did you have fun?" types.
FTFY
In disc golf, I'm just trying not to embarrass myself or ruin anyone else's day.
In motorsports, where I'm a lot more invested, not really. One of the things that I really struggle with is that I may have an event where I'm trying to win, or at least be in the mix to win, and I finish 6th out of 19 or something. Which might as well be 19th out of 19. The slew of "I'm glad to be not last" guys tell me good job and how they'd love to be 6th. It is always tough to avoid that conversation that I absolutely don't want to have while not hurting anyone's feelings.
In disc golf, I'm just trying not to embarrass myself or ruin anyone else's day.
In motorsports, where I'm a lot more invested, not really. One of the things that I really struggle with is that I may have an event where I'm trying to win, or at least be in the mix to win, and I finish 6th out of 19 or something. Which might as well be 19th out of 19. The slew of "I'm glad to be not last" guys tell me good job and how they'd love to be 6th. It is always tough to avoid that conversation that I absolutely don't want to have while not hurting anyone's feelings.
For me, some of this came with age. I found that I can be extremely competitive, but still embrace the joy of the moment. I play tournaments as an outlet for competition, so I get it. At this point in my life I am very comfortable with acknowledging my limitations and errors, throughout a tournament. I look to go out and have the best round of my life, but now understand that does not happen all the time. I compete in divisions with players sometimes rated 60+ points above me. To win, I better have a lifetime round. Walking away 6th in a round I played very well in? Well, I am disappointed, but genuinely happy for the competitors that bested me. If I want to place higher, I could go play a lower division. But, I find that many there have not learned the above and I find the joy diminished.
This is an individual take. I don't think everyone should see the game as I do. We all see things through different eyes.
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
Not a knock against you, but I think there is little I hate more than competing against the "...but did you have fun?" types.
Why? I'm pretty bad at disc golf, but enjoy playing and competing. I may be DFL in every tournament, but I have loads of fun.
(Or did I miss sarcasm again?)
Meillo
Eagle Member
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Obviously, fun is great. I just hate how there is such a stigma against "failure" (and really against caring) in society that we are afraid to admit we are trying.
So we have all these people that invest all this time and effort in getting better, so they clearly want to compete, but then they act like they don't care and downplay the competition and end up robbing everyone else of the experience.
ILUVSMGS18
Just Another Disc Hoarder
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
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I've tried to kick the big stuff (I need to update my sig) out of the bag and see what happens and I usually wish I hadn't. I actually end up playing a lot of MA2 due to my distance, and the win I had mentioned was actually MA1. In my area I play MA1 outside of that it's usually MA2.
I'm actually gonna go without the majority of my longer discs for the winter and bag something like this:
Raptor
Sycamore
Magnolia
Comet
Zone
Manzanita
Ponderosa
I think you are having problems seeing competition for any view but your own. We all view competition differently.
I have played many rounds with the hyper competitive player.....got to say, not always fun. Maybe kicking their bag, storming around, trying to maintain a razor think focus zone is fun in their world, but I would have a tendency to believe they rob far more players of an positive experience, than the "fun guy". I am indeed going to have a blast, so even those players don't really rattle my cage.
Part of my search for inner peace and actualization has always been finding a balance for my competitive nature. As a child, it often manifested itself as mean spirited and in poor sportsmanship. I found you can have a great intensity without emotional involvement. It is not that I don't care, nor have lost my aversion to failure, I just strive to maximize my recreation.
Like I said though, we are all different and I am not characterizing you above. If your style is satisfying to you.....it sounds like it works. I hope to encourage tolerance in the quest of those around you, while not letting their quest impact yours.
This is truth!! I was trying to use speech to convey the message better.
The Force is strong in you, Meillo.
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Truthfully, I have found that I don't enjoy playing disc golf with other people. Which kind of stinks because I would like to compete more.
I don't think I'd ever negatively impact anyone's round. Unless they are bothered by quiet people that can't throw turnovers.
Lots of good info, thx. :clap: Going for par instead of playing aggressive for a birdie is a smart move for players who may or may have the skill set to get the bird, but if you don't go for it how do you even know you can get the bird?
Sure you might be able to get that bird in a casual round once in while, but by repeatedly not going for these aggressive shots in competitive rounds I think it can lead to long stays in ratings or relaxed dude mode which could stifle your competitive game.
The end goal is to be a better player, having the confidence to play more aggressive, while not only improving your rating but also getting more wins.
So moving forward it seems like the logical thing to do is play more aggressive (perhaps way more aggressive) during casual rounds, cash rounds, minis, etc. Over time this should build subliminal confidence in your shot diversity which should lead to more scoring opportunities during actual PDGA tournaments.
But I wonder if relaxed guy's game is a bit plateaued, how good could he be if he played more aggressive, learning new lines, etc? This is where I think... by playing more aggressive in non PDGA events, can help turn relaxed dude into winning dude. lol..
Granted...the fun factor is huge for me, I've played with those serious dudes and they are not fun to play with at all. I would hope the casual rounds/minis will continue to provide the fun factor as a player transitions to a more focused/aggressive player during PDGA events.
Sure you might be able to get that bird in a casual round once in while, but by repeatedly not going for these aggressive shots in competitive rounds I think it can lead to long stays in ratings or relaxed dude mode which could stifle your competitive game.
The end goal is to be a better player, having the confidence to play more aggressive, while not only improving your rating but also getting more wins.
So moving forward it seems like the logical thing to do is play more aggressive (perhaps way more aggressive) during casual rounds, cash rounds, minis, etc. Over time this should build subliminal confidence in your shot diversity which should lead to more scoring opportunities during actual PDGA tournaments.
But I wonder if relaxed guy's game is a bit plateaued, how good could he be if he played more aggressive, learning new lines, etc? This is where I think... by playing more aggressive in non PDGA events, can help turn relaxed dude into winning dude. lol..
Granted...the fun factor is huge for me, I've played with those serious dudes and they are not fun to play with at all. I would hope the casual rounds/minis will continue to provide the fun factor as a player transitions to a more focused/aggressive player during PDGA events.
I think the key is to develop a game plan. For larger, out of town tournaments, I get into town and play the courses. I take notes. Landing zones, lines, targets down the fairway, blind pin locations, disc choices, holes to play aggressive and holes to take my par and walk. This usually helps my game and I try very hard to stick to the plan. That way I am not tempted to let my card-mates influence my decision making.....ooooo, he threw a bomber sidearm there, oh no, I am down three strokes to that guy....
Playing for par is really mitigating bogeys or worse. Risk/reward. Don't be fooled to think playing for par removes the chance for birdie. Many holes I simply know I cannot reach. That does not mean my plan is not to get down the fairway and position my disc for a good, clean, open look at a throw in.
Armus Patheticus
Garrulous Windbag
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For many players, the difference between agressive and safe play exists mostly in the imagination.
The tough decision making usually happens on the putting green.
If "aggression" is a wild attempt at the next-to-impossible, then it is an act of desperation, and will only be enacted by someone desperate to win.
The term aggression implies a disregard for probability, making the game a lottery more than a contest.
Accurate knowledge of your own skills, free of fantasy, will ensure the best decision making.
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Never having had a rating, I've never cared to preserve it. Having won all the divisions available to me (and some "unavailable"), I am unmoved and unmotivated by winning. I only say this to illustrate what others have said: We all play for different reasons and view competition differently.
The tough decision making usually happens on the putting green.
If "aggression" is a wild attempt at the next-to-impossible, then it is an act of desperation, and will only be enacted by someone desperate to win.
The term aggression implies a disregard for probability, making the game a lottery more than a contest.
Accurate knowledge of your own skills, free of fantasy, will ensure the best decision making.
--
Never having had a rating, I've never cared to preserve it. Having won all the divisions available to me (and some "unavailable"), I am unmoved and unmotivated by winning. I only say this to illustrate what others have said: We all play for different reasons and view competition differently.
klodkrawler05
Birdie Member
I think this sums it up pretty well for me. I think it's fun playing aggressive, because when those risky shots work out it just feels so good to watch the disc reach somewhere you knew it could if you executed the shot exactly how you imagined. Eventually that "wow I can't believe that worked" shot becomes comfortable enough to execute more places and it's not the risky shot its the new normal shot.
I think if relaxed guy always plays relaxed he's definitely going to reach some plateau, but playing like aggressive guy for as many rounds as possible, and then trying to channel relaxed guy during a tournament is probably a great way to see improvement in both ratings and win percentage. The super competitive guy who is busy kicking his bag in anger because he's 4 strokes back of the leader after missing a 40' putt (when his c2 putting is 5-10% at best) has already lost to the course and the game. Relaxed dude shrugs it off and waits to clean up his tap in while looking forward to getting to the next teepad to watch the discs fly again.
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People seem to conflate competitive with temper and that isn't always the case. Listen to any Paul Ulibarri interview. He is as competitive as anyone, but he isn't someone that you are going to see slamming discs , slamming bags, punching the ground, or getting courtesy warnings.
Armus Patheticus
Garrulous Windbag
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If, on the other hand "agressive" means attempting the shot with the best possible outcome for your abilities, there's usually no reason not to. That's what most players are already doing, on every throw.
A very low percentage of holes are designed in such a way that a safe layup will save strokes over a failed risky drive at the green.
Many players without the skill to execute risky shots also lack the skill to save strokes through conservative play.
The distinction being used in this thread; relaxed vs agressive, is odd. There's no reason a player pushing the limits of his ability needs to be anything other than relaxed. I think relaxed vs deluded is a better contrast.
I never attempt anything if I know I can't do it. Sometimes you know. I often see players attempt shots that I know they can't execute. Whether or not they know is an interesting question that leads in interesting directions no matter the answer.
A very low percentage of holes are designed in such a way that a safe layup will save strokes over a failed risky drive at the green.
Many players without the skill to execute risky shots also lack the skill to save strokes through conservative play.
The distinction being used in this thread; relaxed vs agressive, is odd. There's no reason a player pushing the limits of his ability needs to be anything other than relaxed. I think relaxed vs deluded is a better contrast.
I never attempt anything if I know I can't do it. Sometimes you know. I often see players attempt shots that I know they can't execute. Whether or not they know is an interesting question that leads in interesting directions no matter the answer.
