Nasty curves

[Everett Evans]

Can any math geeks out there figure out some formula to show the maximum curve a disc could possibly take, based on two factors:

1) Distance (obviously), and,
2) Ceiling height??

I've played a few holes lately where the fairway curves sooo much I don't think it is possible to get all the way around, leaving an annoying 80-100 foot, blind, curving putt. Not really a legit par 4, just a par 3 that is impossible to reach because you can't curve a disc 250' around 3/4 of a circle, with a 15' ceiling.

I figure it might be a nice tool to help course designers...

 

[ArcheType]

well, theoretically,

a disc could take any curve it needs to, with a vertical spike hyzer.

/me being to lazy to do math.

 

[Everett Evans]

well, theoretically,

a disc could take any curve it needs to, with a vertical spike hyzer.

Right, thus the ceiling height factor.

 

[mashnut]

It would be even trickier to figure out how far around a disc could skip, that's often one of the best ways to get all the way around a fairway like that.

 

[ArcheType]

since we're being smart asses,

the disc (assuming it holds its line, and isn't affected by wind) would hold the exact opposite line it took to its apex (highest point)

so if you had say, a 20 ft ceiling, and room to throw a hyzer that curved left 60 ft in that angle (small scale, i know, this is just for explanation) then once it hit 20 feet, it would continue to curve 60 more feet to the height it was released from your hand, then extrapolate the extra, lets say 5 feet, at an angle some more.

good enough?

 

[Everett Evans]

good enough?

No, you fail.

Only kidding, I like it so far. I'm not even sure what I'm really asking, just if there is some way to estimate curveability of a typical disc to help designers. So with a set ceiling height, assuming you max the ceiling with a hyzer, with a disc that is perfectly stable, you should be able to curve, what, like 180° with a radius of the ceiling height? Or something like that?

 

[Everett Evans]

It would be even trickier to figure out how far around a disc could skip, that's often one of the best ways to get all the way around a fairway like that.

Yeah, or maybe a roller on really low tunnel shots, but the problem is the woods courses around New England aren't the greatest for skips or rollers.

Hey, on a side note, I might PM you about next week, I'll be in Chicago and have mapped out a few courses to hit but want to double check to make sure I'm not missing anything new... OK, back on subject...

 

[ArcheType]

I'm not sure thats possible to come up with so generally like that. If you find a disc stable enough to hold the hyzer line you put it on (whatever that is for you) then it will work out as above. More ceiling height, generally = more curve potential, but you'd also need more room for the disc to progress forward, and to the side.

It's much more the hole than the disc.

 

[ArcheType]

-also, everything I just said can be negated,

if you're mashnut, who throws spike hyzers through covered ceilings with ridiculously tiny gaps, and parks extremely wooded holes.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've known players who could roll a disc in a spiral. (I can too, but only 2% of the time, and 98% of the time it's off searching for the worst lie possible).

For your guidelines you'd have to stipulate ground that makes rollers and skip-shots virtually impossible.

Take into account the width of the fairway---how far your throw can swing to the outside before cutting the inside corner of the dogleg.

...........ah, leave it to intuition, and acknowledge that there are some poorly-designed holes out there.

 

[ArcheType]

I'm pretty sad this topic didn't continue more,

I enjoyed feeling smart and breaking out the physics

 

[bwiese]

maybe the hole is designed right, we just have not designed a disc capable of holding the needed line to achieve the shot required.

I also when first reading the post thought bust out the roller, but I am like the 3rd or 4th to say it so just more of the same.

 

[Steve West]

From: Here

Identification of Frisbee aerodynamic coefficients using flight data

Sarah A. Hummel & Mont Hubbard

Sports Biomechanics Laboratory

Department of Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering, University of California, Davis, CA, USA

"An approximate flight model requires a minimum of ten coefficients denoted below by the symbol C;

Lift force: F = (Clo + Cla a) Arv2/2

Drag force: D =[Cdo + Cda (a - ao)2] Arv2/2

Rolling moment: L = [CLrr + CLpp] Adrv2/2

Pitching moment: M =[CMo + CMqq + CMaa] Adrv2/2

Spindown moment: N = CNrr Adrv2/2

where F and D are the lift and drag forces; L, M, and N and p, q, and r the roll, pitch and yaw moments and angular velocities , respectively; ao the angle of attack at zero lift; A and d the Frisbee planform area and diameter, respectively; v the speed and r the atmospheric density."

So, simply solve for the curve you need.

Or, go out there with a 97G. World Class Frisbee and float it around.

 

[denny ritner]

need pictures!

sight unseen, however, i'm betting $20 that i can put a disc inside 10m given 10 throws. i can't throw far, my putting is mediocre, i crack under pressure, but i sure can shape a shot in ways that many can't.

flick roller, backhand roller, thumber roller, tomahawk pancake skipper, thumber pancake skipper, triple-skipper, extreme hyzer partial-flip-up either backhand or forehand, etc. . . . and all those without finding someway to circumvent "the route".

i used to have some holes, probably like the one you're referring to that i absolutely hated and now i love the fact that i can park them and others can't.

 

[optidiscic]

Take a glidey disc
flip it from flat horizontal to total vertical plane
throw it backhand
watch it catch air and boomerang
respect those of us who grew up in the 70s

try it with a roc u might be surprised that a disc can u turn with o low ceiling

 

[humchris85]

What course(s) were you playing on where you found this hole?

 

[Everett Evans]

Well, two that come to mind are #17 at Muldoon (Pelham, NH) and #2 at Feel Good Farm, also in NH. Both left to right curves, a little uphill, decent ceiling, no way to cut the corner, enough crap on the ground to limit skips or rollers. I threw a few drives on both and never made it past the 2/3 point on either hole, leaving a curving 80' putt. I'm sure there are people who can park both holes, and I would love to see the technique, but they are out of my reach.

 

[great white buffalo]

Hey everett when are you gonna make your way north about an hour and come play the pinnacle? Pm me some time if you would like to get a round in here at the toughest course in nh. I got my second ace at muldoon park, and only played feel good farm once and was not impressed, but it was early in the courses beginning.

 

[jongoff09]

From this pic, it looks to me like a roller would work. I bet there is enough room to make a BH anhyzer or FH hyzer work. Also looks like a spike hyzer line high and to the right. At 300', it looks like there are quite a few options to get to it.

 

[jtencer]

No ceiling = no limits