A Newbie Again

[SpasticPlastic]

Hello, all. I used to play disc golf but have been out of it for a few years after a rotator cuff tear sidelined me. I've gotten back into it but things are different now. Im 44 and that muscle tear didn't do anything good for my game. My arm speed is lower than it used to be and I'm now forced to throw slower discs.

I'm getting good results from Eagles and Leopard 3s as my main fairway drivers. The Thunderbird and Escape, at speed 9, seem to be about my maximum but I'm not really using them to their potential.

As for mids, we'll, that's what sort of sucks. When I quit I was throwing Verdicts, Truths, and Fuses. The Fuse still works fine, it's a finesse disc. But I don't seem to be able to get the Truth and Verdict up to the speed they want. I know they're faster mids, and somewhat power hungry, but I was hoping to keep them. However, unless I mash on them, they're a little too overstable at my current arm speed and I don't want to have to crush them every time.

But I'm doing well with Rocs, which I never threw much before. I have a Star Rancho for OS duty, a KC Pro I'm seasoning to straight, and 2 DXs I'm beating into turnovers. The slower flight of the Roc is great for my new, elderly arm speed.

So my concern is this: the DXs and KC Pro are getting a lot of tree hits. They're gouged and chunked, which is uncomfortable to hold. More, they're not circles anymore. They're warped and wavy and wobbly out of the hand.

I know people still swear by the Roc. I've just never thrown much base plastic. My home courses are heavily wooded, so I'm gonna keep nailing trees. Rocs are supposed to be seasoned but is the fact that they're gouged and sharp and warped and wobbly ok? I mean, they're visibly warped and I can never bend them all the way back to straight.

Sorry for the newb question. I've looked around and the consensus is that Rocs are great and seasoned Rocs are beautiful things. I'm just concerned mine aren't seasoning so much as getting trashed. They're flying more US but they're wobbly and sort of ungainly in the air. Worried they're not flying right.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[slowplastic]

Pretend that the disc isn't warped when you throw it. How did it fly? If you see it taking torque worse and being wonky, then yeah...no good.

You can try out Comets as well, for your seasoned Roc shots in premium plastic. If you go to a champ Roc3 it may be more stability than you want...these can be all over from straight to almost like a mild Gator. But Comets are all pretty straight, some with some turn. I'm sure there are differences between a beat Roc and a Comet, but really if you like one you should like the other. A bit of dome/shoulder on a Comet should be more straight/stable, and flatter ones should have less HSS/more turn.

The Mako3 is another good option if you want something that flies like a Truth, as in very straight, but is less power hungry and very easy to throw at lower ranges. Yes they are different discs, but the Mako3 is very straight if you put less than 300' on it and it also doesn't require you to throw it super hard like the Truth and Verdict need. The Core is also a potentially part step up in stability from the Fuse, very very good glide as well. If your Fuse is straight rather than flipping completely then the Core likely won't do much different for you though. I think the Mako3 is more firmly straight than the Core, but the Core has glide like the Fuse.

For drivers, maybe check out Gstar plastic if you are fine with the feel. Something like a Gstar Sidewinder should give you very easy flip and glide. Thunderbirds are great consistent flying discs, but are definitely power hungry if you want to throw them flat and far.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Nice. Thank you. I'll check out a Mako3. I keep hearing about Claymores but, on paper, they seem as fast as a Truth.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Also, according to the In Bounds guide, the Core is essentially the same stability as the Buzzz and more stable than a Mako3. I've never thrown one. Are they power hungry or super glidey or weirdly US like some of the Swedish plastic?

 

[slowplastic]

So this is how I compare those mids from least to most stable, with some of the ones you have thrown as well so you can compare as benchmarks:

Fuse: Very glidey. Only thrown a couple of them, but they will glide, turn, and can be manipulated from deep hyzer for a straight shot, or for turnover shots, or high anhyzers. Not the most trustworthy for tunnels that can't drift way right, but very easy to power down.

Core: A step up in stability from the Fuse, I would rate it as 5/5+/-1/1. Has the slanted inner rim. Very good glide, very easy to power down. Can hyzer flip to straight or wiggle right, and will stay neutral and sweep back to the middle. Can still be thrown on turnover shots. Not headwind compatible, just like the Fuse. Last fresh Fuse I threw flew like my many year old Core.

Claymore: Almost the same as the Core, but has a normal inner rim. Same type of speed and glide. I find it more finicky, like just a bit too much power and it will flip and not come back. I prefer the Core.

Original Truth: These vary a lot...some flip some are firmly straight. But they are faster than Fuse/Core and need more power. Can be less stable than Mako3 or more stable than a Buzzz.

Comet: It's like a straight Roc. 4/5/-0/+0.5. Wants to go straight and hold lines. Some will turn a bit and hold it, some will go straight and just glide left a touch. Depends on the exact disc shape, but it's a Roc style mid rather than Buzzz style mid.

Mako3: I'd say 5/5/-0/0.5. Very very straight. Not incredible glide but the right amount of glide...less than Fuse/Core, so more wind resistant by a bit. I have tried Gstar and Champ and both were good and straight.

Buzzz: A little more stability or fade than a Mako3. Less glide than Core/Fuse. Mako3 is similar in power needs, and these require less power than Truths.

Emac Truth: 5/5/0/1.5. Needs to be thrown hard, very firmly straight, will hold hyzer angles.

Verdict: 5/4.5/0/2. Like a speed 5 Teebird. As firmly straight as the Emac and starts to fade a bit sooner.

 

[slowplastic]

I'll put it this way, the Core and Fuse are very similar. If I want a tunnel shot that is low ceiling, midrange-ish distance and the disc to keep pushing really far then these are the choice. In the open I find they are so glidey they are hard to range, and I also don't like throwing them under 250' because they are so glidey I can't predict landing zone...unless it's a super low ceiling and I need that glide factor. These are special case discs for me, but in those shots they are perfect.

The Comet is easier to range, like a Roc, but needs a bit higher ceiling as it needs height/airtime. Given height it has incredible glide. Flies like a speed 4 putter with incredible glide.

Buzzz and Mako3 are throw it medium arm speed or harder, it will just go where you tell it. Buzzzes sometimes have a -1/1 flight but kind of firm way, firmer than the Core, whereas the Mako is very straight. These are easier to range for me in the open than a Core/Fuse I think.

Truths I trust more in the open to hold a line or tunnels that I can't drift right. Smash on it, it will hold the angle, it will tolerate a bit of wind. But I do not want to power down on it, it needs arm speed. This is a shot that I want midrange distance, but don't trust that a Core will not turn on me.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Wow. Fantastic info. Thank you so much.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

I also found a Pinnacle Ghost in my disc closet. According to my research, it's pretty close to a Roc. Would this work or is it power hungry, too?

 

[slowplastic]

I also found a Pinnacle Ghost in my disc closet. According to my research, it's pretty close to a Roc. Would this work or is it power hungry, too?

Never thrown one, all I know is that it is Roc-like as well. Maybe it'll work as a good stable Roc that won't get as chewed up as the KC and DX plastics on your courses?

 

[zontar]

play with the Rocs for awhile. they have a good chance of not letting you down once you get used to them....

 

[ru4por]

Buzzz SS, Buzzz, Core, Comet. Maybe look into lighter weight, bubble/air discs. Many of the geezers around swear by the lighter weight stuff. I often throw discs like the Underworld for less stability.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Thanks for the helpful responses, everyone. Went out for a round yesterday and may have found the answer for a slower, workhorse mid. I threw a friend's Lat64 Compass and sort of loved it. Blunt, just a hint of dome, slower than a Truth and doesn't seem to need tons of power to fly right. May be just the ticket.

Anyone have experience with this mold?

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks for the helpful responses, everyone. Went out for a round yesterday and may have found the answer for a slower, workhorse mid. I threw a friend's Lat64 Compass and sort of loved it. Blunt, just a hint of dome, slower than a Truth and doesn't seem to need tons of power to fly right. May be just the ticket.

Anyone have experience with this mold?

I would rate it as 4/4/0/1.5...kind of like a Roc without a bead. Only thrown a couple fresh ones but they were very firmly straight, HSS like an EMac Truth, with a consistent fade at the end. But since they were slower they were easy to range and didn't feel like they had to be thrown hard to fly like the Truth...more like a stable Roc3 type of disc that can take a lot of power. Seems to be shorter and/or require higher ceiling than a Truth style mid, but I feel like it is much easier to throw at different power levels and to find landing zones in the open...flies like a midrange rather than a midrange-speed fairway driver if that makes sense.

If you've been throwing Rocs, it makes sense that you like the Compass from my experience with it.

 

[Casey 1988]

Try a Impact or a Wombat for the midrange shot too. The impact is a slow fairway disc that can help get distance while using a midrage flight. The Wombat is a fast midrange that is almost fairway speed in a midrange with that kid of flight. Both work great for a tunnel shot as well as the long midrange that is too long for most midrange but where a true fairway driver is too much disc. I have only used the Impact but have seen enough throws with a Wombat to know they both have nearly the same flight path, no matter what some of the sales places online flight charts say.

 

[DavidSauls]

I won't make any specific-disc suggestions, as this varies from person to person.

But, as someone who's gone through two injury-related arm-speed downgrades, I'll commiserate, and warn you that your worst enemy is your former self, and what he tells you your former discs should do.

You might be well-served by some of these recommendations to try entirely new discs, where you won't have preconceived notions of how they're supposed to fly.

Oh, and the Roc is a wonderful disc for a lot of people, but some of us have found something else that works much better for us. Don't get committed to the Roc's reputation.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Thanks for that. You're right; the player I used to be is disappointed in the new guy and wants to push. Have to ignore that.

And I've never really loved the Roc. I like the way it flies for me most of the time but I've never liked cycling. And now, I don't really play enough to get a good cycle going. It's taking forever to beat these Rocs in.

But now I really like the Compass. It seems to be just what I'm looking for. A heavy Sparkle Opto seems to be the best for a really stable version. Pair it with a lighter GL for dead straight shots and I may be good to go. And I can keep my beloved Fuse.

Just need to find an OS I can use. Maybe a Gator.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks for that. You're right; the player I used to be is disappointed in the new guy and wants to push. Have to ignore that.

And I've never really loved the Roc. I like the way it flies for me most of the time but I've never liked cycling. And now, I don't really play enough to get a good cycle going. It's taking forever to beat these Rocs in.

But now I really like the Compass. It seems to be just what I'm looking for. A heavy Sparkle Opto seems to be the best for a really stable version. Pair it with a lighter GL for dead straight shots and I may be good to go. And I can keep my beloved Fuse.

Just need to find an OS I can use. Maybe a Gator.

Yeah that sounds really good. Keep the Fuse for sure for those easy glide shots. And if you love the Roc flight but not the Roc aspects...I don't think you can do better than the Compass.

Also for the true OS slot there are lots of really good OS driving putters, or tweener type molds out there. They are easier to power down and go nearly or just as far when powered up for most arm speeds as a very OS mid. Zone, Harp, etc. Midrange speed with putter diameter. Gators can be so OS at the end of flight that they dump no matter what, whereas a Zone will go farther with more power but never turn and always fade. Depends on the specific discs obviously, but just saying that you can consider all those speed 3 hybrid discs.

And as DavidSauls said, you can change your perspectives on the discs. Just because a stable Truth used to/"should" be straight doesn't mean you can't use it for a straight to fade mid shot now at more distance than a Compass, and then use an OS putter/mid on top of that for true OS shots.

 

[SpasticPlastic]

Sound advice, SlowPlastic. I actually have a few Suspects that I really love. I've always used them for stuff in between putter and mid. Maybe I can use them as my OS mid.

Never thrown a Harp but I know people love them. How do they compare to the Suspect?

 

[Grippenripp]

Check out the prophecy in base (s line) plastic. Pretty similar to tje roc3 But ot has more glide it is stable for sure i wouldnt cal it power hungry but you can definately power it up. Ibuse this mid exclusively in different stages of beat-ness....

 

[slowplastic]

Sound advice, SlowPlastic. I actually have a few Suspects that I really love. I've always used them for stuff in between putter and mid. Maybe I can use them as my OS mid.

Never thrown a Harp but I know people love them. How do they compare to the Suspect?

I've only thrown a Suspect a few times but it was really good. It is a hybrid overstable mid in putter diameter to me...acts and feels like a mid but seems to be easier to range like a putter because of less glide/float. The few times I have tried one it was extremely HSS, and easier to throw at low distances than I expected. The Harp/Zone in comparison are nearly the same as each other, and are like a low profile driving putter with extreme overstability. I would rank them slower than the Suspect just because they seem more putter like, and in premium plastics probably more overstable as they want to dump at the end of the flight a bit more. Suspect is a good disc for this slot as it's definitely a tweener disc leaning to midrange tendencies, but not extremely overstable like a Justice or some Gators. I haven't thrown one full power in the open to see how far it goes for me vs. a Zone, but it definitely was better for approaches than I expected in closer ranges.