aphilso1's ITB

[jmdaire27]

I bagged both Envies and Proxies before. I really think the Envy is objectively the best driving putter on the market. It is a cheater disc. Has a true 0 HSS while still having a pretty typical fade for a stable putter. It's just bonkers how easy it is to throw. Proxy is in the same boat. Thrown clean it is pretty close to 0 turn also (I'd put its HSS similar to an Emac Truth, for reference), but then just elevators straight down with almost no fade. Proxy can hold a turnover if you really force it over but that is certainly not what it wants to do naturally if thrown flat.

As for filling the gap between Zone and Lucid-X Judge, the Envy is exactly that disc. Proxy would overlap too much with the LX Judge. They are definitely different discs (Proxy is faster, about 15' longer, with less fade but also better HSS compared to LX Judge), but the net result is pretty similar.

I pulled both Envies and Proxies out of the bag in late 2019, mostly to try minimizing molds. Proxy I could live without. The straight flyer is nice, but in low wind I'd rather hyzerflip a worked in Prime Judge and in windy conditions I'm probably not fully trusting the Proxy anyway. Envy though? I just never could cover those lines adequately with either a beat JB Zone or a LX Judge. I've had it back in the bag for a couple months now and it has been a birdie machine for driving on short Par 3s

I feel ya. I bagged Envies for a grip. I have a couple aces on the one P Envy I still have. Great mold, but hard to bag it alone since it is a little OS. I have a complex where I like similar feeling discs per the slot (mid, putter, etc.). So I'd feel weird bagging a beadless (well, kinda) Envy and Judge for throwing... shrugs... OCD that way.

At this point any popular mold is hard as heck to find anywhere anyway... might just stick with the judge or Reko for the time being!

 

[aphilso1]

I feel ya. I bagged Envies for a grip. I have a couple aces on the one P Envy I still have. Great mold, but hard to bag it alone since it is a little OS. I have a complex where I like similar feeling discs per the slot (mid, putter, etc.). So I'd feel weird bagging a beadless (well, kinda) Envy and Judge for throwing... shrugs... OCD that way.

At this point any popular mold is hard as heck to find anywhere anyway... might just stick with the judge or Reko for the time being!

Yeah, that similar hand feel issue has caused me mental problems too. But a Proxy, while feeling like an Envy and flying less stable, just isn't as workable as a nicely beat in Judge. Too fast and stable for those touch anny upshots. Judge is so versatile at all three levels of P&A use (putt, approach, and drive), whereas the Proxy and Envy shine most when throwing over 200'. At least for me anyway.

 

[aphilso1]

April 2021 Update.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(3) Felon
Undertaker
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
(3) Trespass

Putters: If I am driving with a putter, it's typically either a hyzer-flipped baseline Judge for dead straight or a premium Envy for straight-to-fade. I've tinkered with what to carry (if anything) between those two discs. For the past 5-6 weeks I've thrown a baseline Envy in that tweener slot instead of an LX Judge. It flies like a Proxy and seems to fit what I want out of the disc well.

Mids: Back to only four mids – dropped the super understable Tursas again. My forehand form and distance have been improving, so an ultra flippy mid isn't needed to hit those L-to-R 250' touch shots.

Fairways: I've been auditioning Undertakers and Pipelines for mid-stability fairway duties. Really liking the Pipelines a lot and I think they will stick. I still love Stags, but they have been increasingly difficult to find. Plus, I'm hoping an SP Pipeline will stay in that sweet spot longer than a VIP Stag. The Undertaker is a nice disc too but probably not different enough to warrant bagging.

Drivers: No change, but my stable Trespass is starting to turn. Probably will add a fresh one soon and bump the rest down a slot in the cycle.

 

[aphilso1]

End of April update. I don't usually update twice per month, but I've had a lot of changes.

-Pipelines are awesome. The 163g PL did indeed beat in quickly, and is now in the perfect-for-my-arm stability as a workhorse flip-to-flat disc. Heavier SP for the same shot shape with a bit of a headwind, or if I want the disc to not quite get all the way to flat before starting to fade in non-headwind conditions.
-Undertaker experiment is over. Nice disc, but just not what I'm looking for right now.
-Had a buddy that hated his max weight metalflake Teebird, and I happended to be carrying a Getaway that day and let him borrow it. He loved it so we traded on the spot. That 0 turn 2 fade FW driver remains a situational disc for me (since I typically will either throw a more neutral disc like Stag/Pipeline, or go all the way up to a Felon), but I think I will give the Teebird another look. It is a situational slot in my bag, that only gets carried for certain courses and wind conditions.
-Lost my Titanium Zone, which was one of the oldest discs in my bag. Slid a 10th Anniversary limited run of unknown sparkly plastic into the bag as a replacement, but I'm not super happy with the grip. Did order an ESP so I will probably audition both to see which I like better and which is the backup.
-My Trespass cycle is slightly in flux, as I am trying to nail down the perfect stability separation after a couple have started beating into tweener stabilities. Ideally I would just carry 2-3, but I have had four in the bag lately as a result.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2-3) Felon
(0-1) Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
(2-4) Trespass

 

[aphilso1]

Early June update.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
(2) Orc
(2) Trespass

Putters: ESP Zone has settled into my Zone slot. No other changes.

Mids: No change.

Fairways: Lost my most beat-in Felon. Teebird has taken over that slot to bridge the gap.

Drivers: I have really been struggling with my distance drivers lately, so ended up trading for a couple of Orcs so that I can take a little bit off of my throw and still get the driver up to speed. Both are G* and pretty flat, with one already nicely beat-in and the other one fairly fresh.

 

[aphilso1]

August update. Not much to report, but I feel like I should type something at least once every couple months for posterity's sake.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
Orc
(2-3) Trespass

Putters: No change
Mids: No change
Fairways: no change.
Drivers. *sigh*. My distance game is a mess. Fast discs are coming out of the hand so poorly that I typically can tell at the hit point it's going to be bad. Not sure if it is a mental thing or a physical thing (I use a birdie grip for all throws) but man are distance drivers failing me. If there is a silver lining in this, it's that I am learning to throw fairway drivers further than ever before. Hit 340' with a Pipeline in my last round on a golf line. As for the makeup of the bag itself, I am throwing a beat-in Orc as a control driver tweener, plus a fresh and beat Trespass. I also have a fresh Lucid-X Trespass in the trunk that gets bagged on windy days.

 

[aphilso1]

November update. Probably(?) last update of 2021, unless I do an annual recap post at the end of December.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
(1-2) Trespass
Mamba

Putters: No change yet. Although as we move into the snowy season, I'll have to swap my white Electron Envy out for something else. Perhaps a Neutron Proxy, or perhaps I'll start beating in a darker colored Electron Envy.
Mids: No change.
Fairways: I dabbled with the Undertaker again this month. It's a great disc, but I find it clutters my decision making. More HSS than a fresh Pipeline but with less fade than a Teebird...probably not a shot shape I really *need* in my bag, so it's back out again.
Drivers: I tried a buddy's Mamba, which was my first time throwing that mold. Perfect fit for my game. I can throw it from a steep hyzer (my preferred throwing angle), get it to flip up to flat, turn controllably, and finish straight even at elevation and with my less-than-awe-inspiring power level. Seems like a good fit for my game so I traded for the Mamba and now am on the lookout for backups. The Orc experiment fizzled out, as I realized I wasn't getting any added distance over a Teebird. If I could find some domey Orcs I think the mold would be a hit for me, but alas the ones I own are board flat.

 

[aphilso1]

2021 Closing Thoughts and 2022 Look Ahead

Snow is on the ground so my bag composition is essentially on hold. I typically just throw backup discs in the winter so that I don't have too much heartburn over discs lost in snowdrifts. Looking ahead to 2022:

Putters:
I've been really happy with the Envy/Judge combo. At face value they don't seem like natural partners. Hand feel is very different, and when fresh they're both straight-to-fade type of discs. But the Judge is a slower, floaty, traditional putter that powers down effectively and beats into a turnover machine. And then the Envy is a Baby Teebird that powers up well and never drifts to the right if thrown clean (and also forehands extremely straight). These two molds have been the backbone of my game in 2021 and I don't expect to change that for 2022.
Zone and Berg round out the putter-class for me. Both basically utility discs. Berg is a slower/glideless step down from an Envy that I use exclusively for backhand approaches. Zone gets the lion's share of forehand approaches.

Mids:
I love both the Emac Truth and Tursas, and yet I felt like I relied on them a lot less in 2021. Often I ended up discing up to a fairway or down to a putter instead. I can't imagine changing either mold in my bag, but perhaps I'll find myself slimming down to just three mids (LX Emac/beat Emac/Tursas). For the winter, I'll add my beat-to-snot old Tursas for easy standstill distance in icy conditions.

Fairways:
Pipelines replaced Stags in 2021 and quickly became a favorite mold. Along with Envy and Judge, the Pipeline was a most-thrown mold off the tee for me. Hatchet is still a perfect understable bookend for my game. Ditto for Felon on the overstable end of the spectrum.
Teebird is the one disc in my fairway class that I don't totally love, but there are times you need a disc to not flip but also not fade out hard. Unless I disc down to an Emac, the Teebird is that disc. It will likely be in the bag at the end of 2022 even though I'm sure I'll try to kick it out again.

Drivers:
Usage rate on drivers dipped dramatically in 2021. If I didn't have such a large supply of Trespasses, I think I may consider completely retooling the lineup. Photon/Wave/Vanish would be nice to try again.
I've continued to enjoy the Mamba that I bought back in October, but thus far finding a similar backup has been fruitless. I've now thrown four Mambas, and three of the four were comically flippy. Only the one I'm bagging has a useful stability, and I'm starting to think it's the outlier rather than the norm for the mold. Just ordered a couple other Speed 11 flippy molds (Renegade, Fission Wave) and hopefully one of those is similar.

 

[aphilso1]

The snow has melted and the winter discs are back in storage for now. Time for the first 2022 ITB.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
Trespass
Wave
Renegade
Final slot: LX Trespass on windy days, or second Tursas for woods golf, or second Hatchet for roller-friendly rounds

Putters: No change

Mids: No change

Fairways: No change

Drivers: I'm abandoning my Trespass cycle. I had been trying to roll with only Trespasses in 2021, mostly for mold minimization, but it really backfired on me. I found myself shying away from throwing my overstable Lucid-X Trespass because I didn't want it to beat in or get lost. And my understable Trespasses flew less consistent round-to-round than an off-the-shelf understable disc, as I found it stabling out early on low power days and flipping too quickly on days when my arm was feeling great.

Final Slot: I'm rethinking my bag composition slightly. I've found that I have 19 discs that I rely on most rounds, and always want them in the bag. I have plenty of room for a 20th disc and that's the number I most often carry. Rather than assign a 20th disc purely to have a consistent bag, I'll keep three discs in the trunk and put whichever one makes the most sense for the course and playing conditions that day. Right now those "not needed every round" discs are a designated high speed headwind fighter, a low speed utility US get-out-of-jail card, and a dedicated roller disc.

 

[aphilso1]

March update:

Two changes.
1. Added a beat-in Jawbreaker Zone to help out my suddenly shaky forehand approach game.
2. Revisiting the Undertaker as my Felon-Pipeline gap filler in lieu of the Teebird. Similar speed (despite the marketing saying the Undy is a 9 and the Teebird is a 7), but the Undertaker flips up to flat while the Teebird just holds the hyzer the whole way.

 

[aphilso1]

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
(2) Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird or Explorer
Pipeline
Hatchet
Photon
(2) Wave
Renegade

Putters: JB Zone still in the bag. 7 putters seems like way too many, but I throw putters a lot and they each have their role so I'm OK with this (for now).

Mids: No change. I still can't bring myself to slim down to only three mids.

Fairways: Still tinkering with the disc to bridge my Felon-to-Pipeline gap. Got my hands on an Explorer and I really like it initially. Halfway between a Teebird and Undertaker stability. Will see if it beats in too much though. Also snagged a G* Teebird which is a more useful stability than my old Metal Flake Bird, but not quite as workable as the Explorer. Bagging both currently for head to head comparisons, but the Explorer is in the lead. Also, lost my beat Pipeline and thus just have one in the bag while I try to work the fresh one in.

Drivers: Cosmic Neutron Wave, where have you been all my life? This thing is WAY more stable than my typical workhorse Waves (Plasma or Fission) which easily allows me to bag both. I've been saying hello to the Photon again as the OS bookend, but I could see the CN Wave being all the stability I need on non-windy days.

 

[aphilso1]

June update.

Berg
(2) Judge
(2) Envy
(2) Zone
(3) Emac Truth
Tursas
(2) Felon
Teebird
(2) Pipeline
Hatchet
Photon
Wave
Renegade

Putters: no change.

Mids: No change.

Fairways: G* Teebird edged out the Explorer, but really they are interchangeable. Second Pipeline back in the bag.

Drivers: Been rolling with just three distance drivers. When I feel the need for a fourth, I put the Fission Wave back in the bag and take out either a fairway (one of the Pipelines) or mid (one of the Emac Truths).

 

[Monocacy]

I could probably roll with your bag.

Fairways: G* Teebird edged out the Explorer, but really they are interchangeable. Second Pipeline back in the bag.

Have you ever thrown a *TL? If so, I wonder how it compares with a G* Teebird.

Thanks!

Drivers: Been rolling with just three distance drivers. When I feel the need for a fourth, I put the Fission Wave back in the bag and take out either a fairway (one of the Pipelines) or mid (one of the Emac Truths).

What plastic for the non-Fission Wave?

 

[aphilso1]

Have you ever thrown a *TL? If so, I wonder how it compares with a G* Teebird.

I've thrown a couple Champ TLs, but not a Star. The G* TB has more HSS but a similar LSS compared to a Champ TL.

What plastic for the non-Fission Wave?

Cosmic Neutron, approximately 12 grams heavier than the Fizz.