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Backhand Form Check - I've tasted the nectar

Appreciate the help - good to connect with someone else trying to build their form up

I had a chance to throw just three throws today but I used the figure 8 drill and it felt very different and I felt like I got a lot on the disc. It felt like there was a lot more time to do things with my body while my weight was shifting forward. Like I've was able to get my off arm to come in and through my body a lot easier and it felt like there was an obvious time to do it. I'll be hitting the field for real tomorrow or Sunday. I'm giving you more tries and we'll report back my findings!

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
 
Got some fresh footage!



I was trying to focus on keeping a relaxed arm and using the body to drive the disc. Much different feeling as I mentioned before. I busted out a 15 pound kettlebell to try to feel the swing and practice the figure 8 with. Skip to about a minute to get to the throws.

I had some throws which were WAY better than I normally throw and they felt very different. Consistency is a big issue and when things go bad I'm usually skying the disc with nose up angle way off on a big anhyzer angle.

Some things I notice in the film are that I may be introducing some rounding. I'm really trying to not actively move my arm much at all so trying to control where it is when I start moving forward is a learning experience.

I also notice my feet are getting away from proper alignment so I'll be keeping an eye on that.

I played a round on Sunday after I filmed this on Saturday and shot a personal best, so things keep improving. I did find it difficult to adapt this newer form to non-max power shots as I haven't practiced that. I'm thinking I need to change how hard I drive forward and perhaps the length of my reachback?

In any case all the feedback I've received has paid off big time so far so big thanks! Looking forward to improving further.
 
kinda looks like the elbow is still dropping a good bit during the downswing.
low elbow.jpg

this image of mcbeth is a visual i like to look at as a reminder of where my arm could possibly go. this image was taken from a controlled shot and not a full power shot. i will say tho that when i get my elbow up i feel the 'linkage' working better and i can throw farther with less effort

short and controlled shot, keep arm up.jpg

this is also what i think about

sidewinder22 said:
You are pulling your elbows ahead of your shift and down into your hips and across your body toward right tee so your swing is really short, instead of sending them much further forward and outward away from body toward left tee
Click to expand...
(quote taken from my thread)

im still working on this too. my muscle memory just loves having my elbow pulled downward and in towards my chest. lol

this video below gives a good visual of keeping the elbow up and how the arm/elbow moves during backswing/downswing. purpose of video of what i want it to convey is simply keeping elbow up during the downswing.



i know seabass has this video, but the one above is what stuck with me

 
Played a round and threw in the field today, it was veery windy so it made it tough. No video but just wanted to drop some notes:

The open to closed dill was helpful and felt like a good way to evolve the figure 8 drill. I'm still throwing mostly standstill but this felt like a good way to start moving towards a one step. I could feel how much more weight was available using this drill, but I don't think I'm at the point where I'm capturing enough of the momentum for it to matter too much.

I was much better about not rounding but I think I was having what felt like the opposite problem where I sometimes wasn't getting the disc into my chest far enough (angle between forearm and bicep was too large).

I was better about keeping the shoulders closed AND about not turning my head too far back in the backswing which actually felt connected. There were a few throws that really felt like baseball swings with my arm fully extended swinging through the "zone". The swing thoughts I had some luck with were thinking of 3 critical points in the swing plus the follow through. The 3 critical points were: peak of reachback (keeping it wide), in the chest, and release point. Visualizing these as a sort of triangle (wide-narrow-wide) seemed to help some.

Will get back out there soon and hopefully video some improvements.
 
https://youtu.be/mnp-pE_uErk

Got some throws in yesterday but no real progress to be honest. Everything went just about the exact same distance (throwing Mako3s, Leopard and one DX Teebird3) about 2 to 250 ft.

I don't think I'm rounding as bad as I was before which is a positive.

I think there are still problems getting into the power pocket and getting my elbow in the right position. In the still frames attached it looks like my arm is starting to uncurl when the disc is at the rear edge of my body instead of closer to the front pec.

I'm also not really feeling the earth during my brace in a meaningful way. I think I need to get the hammer or kettlebell out again to regain that feeling.

Felt like a bit of stagnation or regression to be honest but I guess that is all part of the journey.
c658ef5eeb7f3c2f4cedb591a738d553.jpg
decb44d2874c54c0192b6eff73e768a1.jpg
631595743ca60d8fe4068a340d8bed26.jpg
 
I think I had a bit of a breakthrough the other day and want to check to see if I'm on the right track.

The baseball swing analogy really clicked with me and I realized that I had been trying to accelerate my upper body in a very general way. Just kind of getting my arm swinging as fast as possible. However what I started thinking more about is accelerating in order to maximize power at a specific release point. Much like a baseball swing is trying to time the peak power from the swing with the ball impact.

This lead me to work more on the timing of pressing out or pushing back from the lead leg. In order to get the release point I was aiming for I found I had to start pressing out that leg MUCH earlier than I had been. I was also able to get this feeling doing a much smaller weight transfer. Similar to how one might try to hit a well placed line drive rather than a booming home run. It helped a lot to not swing for the fences every time and instead work on the timing of loading and unloading the front leg at the right times to coincide with the ideal release point.

I had some good power throws but more so noticed an increase in accuracy with this approach. I banged a midrange off the basket from about 200 feet away one one hole.

I'm having continued nose up issues I am trying to correct, I think in the middle of my swing I lose the "coffee pour" wrist I start with.

With the new approach I'm realizing the importance of getting the disc into the front pec. It seems like the smaller the angle between forearm and bicep at the power pocket the more power you can generate (if everything is timed right). I've been revisiting the 'elbow extension' post and trying to get things in the right spot. http://www.heavydisc.com/2014/09/elbow-extension.html


QUESTION ON THE OFF ARM!
One thing I felt was that my lead shoulder was not providing a good base for the rest of my arm, as if my shoulders were curled in towards my chest and not allowing the full arm length to be used. I found doing the swim move with my off arm would allow me to tighten up the shoulders and cause the lead should to come back away from the chest and provide a better base for the throw. Is that part of the purpose of the swim move? I had trouble getting the timing right but it felt like a big boost.

Hope to get some more video up soon to get better feedback but I wanted to keep my thoughts here for my own benefit and to ensure I don't start going down the wrong path!
 
i cant find it but i recall a sentence that was something like 'the point of the backswing is to put the disc so it can reach the right pec/power pocket' or something like that ( i believe it was from heavydisc blog). what ive experienced is when im going really slow i can guide the disc into the right pec, when i speed things up then that location becomes more like my left pec. the similarities possibly being that mayb i need to somewhat guide the disc into my chest? as in when i rotate i need to make a small physical effort with my arm to guide the disc into my chest then when the disc reaches that point thats when the ejection happens due to rotation force? ( i remember reading and the key word being ejection )
 
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lostDoughnut said:
i cant find it but i recall a sentence that was something like 'the point of the backswing is to put the disc so it can reach the right pec/power pocket' or something like that ( i believe it was from heavydisc blog). what ive experienced is when im going really slow i can guide the disc into the right pec, when i speed things up then that location becomes more like my left pec. the similarities possibly being that mayb i need to somewhat guide the disc into my chest? as in when i rotate i need to make a small physical effort with my arm to guide the disc into my chest then when the disc reaches that point thats when the ejection happens due to rotation force? ( i remember reading and the key word being ejection )
Click to expand...

i just found this page, mayb it has updated information and what i wrote above isnt the most accurate of info?

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3707087#post3707087

"Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically.

You need to work your body to make this moment happen. If you feel as if you're "pulling" it's wrong. The arm should be shooting forward into the power pocket, not being dragged into it. It's a lack of effort for a moment, made possible by the effort put in before it happens with your lower body.

This gif below VERY clearly shows this happening. Notice how SW's arm is the ONLY thing moving to the hit after he's shifted his weight to the front foot. Everything STOPS for a moment, to allow the arm to jump into position and eventually far enough to rip out at the hit."
 
How timely - I was just reading through that same thread. I've seen it before but things are understood differently after making some progress.

The front pec thing is interesting to me as well. In this video https://youtu.be/uKFBjR7V2DU he says something along the lines of "everything before the right pec is window dressing". I'm sure that is a bit of an exaggeration but the importance of the final phase of the swing seems huge.

I've got my posture and weight shift feeling good especially thanks to the figure 8 and perpetual motion drills. With a limp arm trying to fling it I can get mids out close to 300 but I don't think I'm getting the elbow or shoulder stop people talk about enough which let's the forearm whip out.

What is funny is each time I leave the field I think about what to try next and almost ALWAYS realize that I didn't try to deliberately "slow down" the backswing Once I have a disc in my hand I just want to rip it! Lots of comments speak of how pre-power pocket things are moving slower than expected.

I'm thinking of revisiting the closed shoulder snap drill to get a feel for the elbow/shoulder stop.
 
Posted too soon! Was curious if you've done much work on the closed shoulder drill? Are you too trying to to activate your arm at all in the hit or just limp arming all the way through?

Something I've come to realize more is the full body movements are all about getting the forearm to whip out. All of the follow through and heel spinning is for dissipating the force created. This helps me think more about stopping the shoulder and elbow more. There is a momemt when everything stops, the forearm whips out and then everything continues due to the momentum of the forearm.
 
DrBone said:
Posted too soon! Was curious if you've done much work on the closed shoulder drill?
Click to expand...

i have tried the close shoulder drill as that was when i believe i first felt the disc eject out of my arms. or i believe that was what i was practicing its from 6/10/2021 so im not 100% sure what i was practicing then. i try to leave myself notes but these were a bit vague. i think i was using my arm too much during this movement ( i was very new to updating my form) but what i did get from it was a feeling of ejection. mentally i thought to pull the disc into my armpit as when i thought to pull into my pec my body didnt make the transition.


DrBone said:
Are you too trying to to activate your arm at all in the hit or just limp arming all the way through?
Click to expand...

below is how i warmup.i believe then my forearm is limp. a net has been really great in helping me slow down. something about standing in front of a net and my brain/body slows down. where as if i dont have a net i think i slow down but i dont do it as much as i should.



when i try to throw farther i try to keep my forearm limp, but i think i need more practice in doing so as i can feel my muscles tensing and it ruins my ability to move. ill throw 7 discs with alot of power. then i know i was trying to hard and mentally i tell myself to slow down. then ill throw another 7 with less power and my muscles/body sync up way better and i end up throwing the same. i think i do need to make those mistakes and learn from them. or else i dont know right from wrong. plus i figure over time my timing will get better so mayb i can put more power into it
 
One thing I've gleaned from different threads is that it doesn't seem like getting all the way to the right pec is necessary or that everyone gets it that far. I saw lots of talk of the sternum and diaphragm as well. I think the important part is getting it into your center of gravity (which should be about center chest / right pec). Using right pec as a cue or thought seems to be helpful though.

I put my phone on the ground filming upwards the other day and it gave a good view of how deep the disc was getting into my chest and where it was before starting to come out. Pretty helpful. Unfortunately it is so hard to tell from film if I'm strong arming or not.

That net seems really useful, nice to not have to go pick up the discs!

On the closed shoulder drill I'm a bit confused as to whether you should be using your arm actively or not. It seems really hard to get enough momentum from the stance to actually throw the disc and I seen people talk about engaging the arm through the hit to add power which makes me think the arm should be more involved in the drill.

Dumped a few inches of snow here last night so my practice will be limited to flinging my arms around inside my apartment for a few days.
 
these might give some insight into help obtain a feeling

this drill i believe is used to help get a feeling of the disc ejecting. not that the disc should be at the pec but that during this drill thats the location the disc needs to be to be able achieve the feeling the drill was meant for. i remember using this when starting out and got the disc out alot further than what i thought possible


possibly an explanation into what might be missing


i really liked the diagram in this thread. post number 6

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109910

engaging the arm might be talking about how the forearm extends when the disc is being ejected due to rotation. i think this comes naturally when done correctly but have read that it adds more when correctly done (i think its full hitting vs half hitting are the key words) this is from a document from 2016 so the information could be outdated too

Elbow Drill:

Blake T:Another drill I've done with people to work on rhythm/timing is almost like mitt punching with a boxer.

Basically, chest 90 degrees from target, I'll hold my hand slightly beyond their body for them to hit it with their elbow. Once they hit it with their elbow, I'll quickly shift it farther away from them for them to hit it with the back of their hand.

Most people hit it with the elbow and have already over-rotated by that point making it tough to deliver force with the back of the hand. These are the same people who get slips where the disc leaves at the point of contact and they only hit it hard on grip locks
 
my apologize i believe my posts have been all over the place. for the 'close shoulder drill' . i just did it a few minutes ago and if i start with the disc at my chest, elbow up, rotate away from basket with the disc still at my chest (i dont reachout), then when rotate towards basket disc i do actively open my forearm.
 
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Good stuff! We've been scouring the same threads lostDoughnut, it's great to get little reminders from the quotes you pulled out. So much information it's tough to remember what to focus on.

That Richard Hattan video is excellent!
 
Fresh video:



I was doing a one-legish sort of throw here. While messing around indoors I started to feel the difference when getting all the way on to the front leg and being able to clear the hip. I was trying to make sure that I wasn't jamming and was making space for my hips to rotate. It is quite exaggerated here as I was focusing on getting my rear hip to come through into the "walk it out" position at the end. I can tell how much power is lost because I'm coming forward a lot at the end versus standing straight up.

Some analysis I did against a Calvin drive (i'm tall and lanky so figured he is a good comp):

Looking at the hip height I see that my compression/decompression timing is waaaay off. My hips dip at peak reach back but come back up a lot far before my release. I think I'm either not getting enough downward force or pushing back into the ground too soon. Probably a combination of both. The more force you put down the earlier you need to push back I think.

Hips at reach-back (orange line):
CjQreQX


Hips at release (same orange line for Calvin, purple line for me)
dzY6TPs



I did feel much more balanced and it was good to get different feelings in my throw. I think I need to work on vertical compression and timing more. Also that dramatic head turn crept back in to my throw!
 
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