Backhand wobble at release

[zGillz9]

For all of my backhand shots (any disc, any power) I am getting significant wobble right after the disc leaves the hand. By the time I turn my eyes forward half a second later, the disc corrects itself and is flying without wobble — but I'd like to clean up my release and the amount of wobble if possible.

Can anyone review my notes below and give advice on how to throw without wobble from release?

Things I've tried (with no luck) based on recommendations here and elsewhere:

• Grip harder/looser
• Four-finger power grip, two-finger power grip, fan grip
• Pinch point in grip — have pressure between index finger and thumb and this is where the disc pivots from before release
• Testing more/less thumb pressure and different thumb positions (including no thumb just to see its effect)
• Don't open wrist or turn wrist up in pull through; keep wrist closed/in position
• Make sure to not let go of disc; it should rip out of hand/fingers
• Wider than my normal reachback
• Keep body on same plane during throw — as in, if I am tilted at the hips, stay low and don't stand up at the pull through
• Keep disc on same swing plane throughout throw
• X-step, one step, standstill, minimal reachback, from power pocket

Some additional details:

• I don't have issues (in general) with griplock, early release, nose up, or hitting my intended line
• Putters and mids have more pronounced wobble than my high-speed drivers, although it is noticeable with drivers too
• I prefer throwing with a relaxed four-finger power grip
• I have gone through the Grip & Wrist section in the Best Practices PSA (Best Practices PSA) and I feel generally confident my grip is following the guidance there (plus I've tried many grip variations in my testing); my grip still could be the issue though...

Slow motion video from the side:

Slow motion video from the back:

I'm open to any advice — including going back through things I've tried already.

Final note: I know there has been some discussion in this forum on how much wobble actually impacts the throw. Regardless of the impact, I would like to be able to turn that switch off or on — preferably on purpose!

Thank you!

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are rounding/hugging yourself and not really swinging centrifugally. You never turn your shoulders back enough or keep the upper arm wider away from chest/center. Note how much further Marc's shoulders are turned back so his upper arm is much wider than yours although you have the disc in the same position.

.

Note how Eagle has moved his center further away from rear foot/disc and his body is pulled back further taut and loaded going into the plant. You look like you have a lot a slack left going into the plant.

 

[zGillz9]

Thank you so much. Here is more shoulder turn and trying to reach out wider to avoid rounding. I need to work on leading with the butt and falling forward. Am I still rounding?

 

[sidewinder22]

The shoulder/arm looks better.

Now work on your posture and footwork. You are leaning way too far over toes and feet are crossing the streams stepping too far diagonally over your feet. Stand more upright through the x-step and then get more athletic going into the plant.

The Hips

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www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[Nick Carroll]

Something is happening from about where the disc comes into the power pocket, to about where it's released. Maybe others can explain better, but things I notice:

1) Your throwing arm has the disc coming into the power pocket where it's too far back. The disc should somewhere around your sternum when it comes inward the most, or ideally more towards the lead (left in your case) pec.

2) The upper part of your arm, when the disc gets into that in-most part of the swing, is pointed down quite a bit. So the elbow is practically pointing to the ground, and the disc changes angle as your bring your upper arm up and out.

3) You can see the disc in the few frames before release, to a few frames after release, is changing angles while in the hand, so when it releases, the disc is off the axis.

All that said, your wobble isn't as bad as I've seen it. Basically just do whatever sidewinder22 tells you, but in my experience dealing with wobble, it can come from having that elbow down and too close to the body. Even if you correct somehow without getting the upper arm higher, you're robbing yourself of some power.

 

[zGillz9]

Nick -- those are some good observations. I agree, the disc is changing angles around the power pocket.


Your point #1 -- is the fix here (or mental cue) leading more with the elbow in the pull through?

Your point #2 -- could you explain this more (elbow down)? I am struggling to see exactly what you mean, plus I can't see a difference looking at a pro (but I am probably looking for the wrong thing).

I remember seeing your videos on wobble a couple weeks ago and the "off plane movement" resonated with me and my form -- since I'm getting that change in disc angle throughout the pull through. I don't feel like I'm swooping though (your struggle, correct?), so maybe your point #2 is on the right track for my "why".

One other thing to mention. For a lot of no wobble/clean release forms I've seen (either pros or form threads on here), I feel like I see a similar issue of the disc changing angles throughout the pull through. The disc isn't maintaining the same angle. A couple examples below. All to say, what is most crucial for no wobble? Keeping the disc on the same angle, or is it something to do with wrist, grip, elbow, upper arm (like maybe you are suggesting), etc. Thanks!


Anthony Barela slow motion:


First videos from BillyJackO's thread:
BillyJackO's Form Adventure*

 

[Brychanus]

Nick -- those are some good observations. I agree, the disc is changing angles around the power pocket.


Your point #1 -- is the fix here (or mental cue) leading more with the elbow in the pull through?

Your point #2 -- could you explain this more (elbow down)? I am struggling to see exactly what you mean, plus I can't see a difference looking at a pro (but I am probably looking for the wrong thing).

I remember seeing your videos on wobble a couple weeks ago and the "off plane movement" resonated with me and my form -- since I'm getting that change in disc angle throughout the pull through. I don't feel like I'm swooping though (your struggle, correct?), so maybe your point #2 is on the right track for my "why".

One other thing to mention. For a lot of no wobble/clean release forms I've seen (either pros or form threads on here), I feel like I see a similar issue of the disc changing angles throughout the pull through. The disc isn't maintaining the same angle. A couple examples below. All to say, what is most crucial for no wobble? Keeping the disc on the same angle, or is it something to do with wrist, grip, elbow, upper arm (like maybe you are suggesting), etc. Thanks!


Anthony Barela slow motion:


First videos from BillyJackO's thread:
BillyJackO's Form Adventure*

Just wanted to opine & remind that some degree of redirection, OAT, wobble can be fine depending on your style.

Changes I've learned under SW have generally reduced wobble because they help get the body out of the way of itself and make it easier to get a smooth but abrupt transfer of force through the axis of the disc and roughly 90 deg. to target. Let the arm come along for the ride.

Leverage & Centrifugal Force are Sideways

Maximum Leverage and Centrifugal Force occurs approximately 90 degrees from target line with the arm extended wide out over your front foot to the side of the tee like a hockey stick hitting a puck to the goal or arm pulled out taut like ball on string releasing to target, and the rear arm/leg...

www.dgcoursereview.com

That's part of what will happen more easily if you improve that X-step.

Easier to practice the "upright then athletic" advice he's giving in standstill then try in X-step IMO.

 

[Nick Carroll]

Your point #1 -- is the fix here (or mental cue) leading more with the elbow in the pull through?

Your point #2 -- could you explain this more (elbow down)? I am struggling to see exactly what you mean, plus I can't see a difference looking at a pro (but I am probably looking for the wrong thing).

1) That might be the right cue, but you'll have to experiment to see if it works for you. For me I've just thought of bringing the disc closer to my right pec, since I'm RHBH, but my elbow has a tendency to drop specifically because of the external rotation I do.

2) I can prevent external rotation of my upper arm - and still my elbow will be too low. That's because the upper arm is pointed downward. Some of that is fine, and can put the arm in a stronger position for you, but less effective mechanically. Just take a look at this:


See how the upper arm is pointing almost straight downward? While your elbow is a touch below the disc, the upper arm angle could be fixed if the elbow comes up and out some. Maybe forward some - not 100% sure. I'd defer to more knowledgeable form experts here.

 

[itlnstln]

1) That might be the right cue, but you'll have to experiment to see if it works for you. For me I've just thought of bringing the disc closer to my right pec, since I'm RHBH, but my elbow has a tendency to drop specifically because of the external rotation I do.

2) I can prevent external rotation of my upper arm - and still my elbow will be too low. That's because the upper arm is pointed downward. Some of that is fine, and can put the arm in a stronger position for you, but less effective mechanically. Just take a look at this:
View attachment 330015

See how the upper arm is pointing almost straight downward? While your elbow is a touch below the disc, the upper arm angle could be fixed if the elbow comes up and out some. Maybe forward some - not 100% sure. I'd defer to more knowledgeable form experts here.

Maybe a different way to say this is that the angle of the upper arm and chest appears to be less than 90 degrees (elbow is too close to the chest)- this is contributing to hugging/rounding.

Additionally, the elbow needs to be leading the body (pointing out toward the target) by this point in the throw. The disc should be around the middle of the chest or at the left pec